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Little Tasks, Little Trust

adamard.com

11–20 of 93 posts

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#11

At the same time, how many of us have been burnt when delegation goes wrong? I think managers have a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" attitude that inevitably leads to small tasks and less delegation of responsibility after a few bad experiences with developers wandering off in the woods and building what they want and not what is needed.

Delegating and trusting someone doesn't mean a task never goes badly. Part of delegation is meeting and touching base with work that is ongoing. Participate in code reviews, have regular 1:1s with people you are delegating to.

And yes, you're not going to end up with your exact vision when you delegate. The question is whether the end goal is sufficient and minimal, and if not then you should evolve that with the other people involved.

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#13

I'm a software architect and how I handle this between my teams is: + Set an expectation for teams to raise difficult problems they don't know how to solve for guidance + Help teams meet and determine standards and contracts together + Make sure teams have the power to make bold choices within their own domains Sometimes these go a bit off the rails or a less optimal choice gets made and frankly... that's fine. Mista…

I'm on the hunt for a manager that understands principles like these -- if you need someone with the wide-ranging skills of an experimental physicist, please get in touch. Email is in my HN profile.

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#14

I'm a software architect and how I handle this between my teams is: + Set an expectation for teams to raise difficult problems they don't know how to solve for guidance + Help teams meet and determine standards and contracts together + Make sure teams have the power to make bold choices within their own domains Sometimes these go a bit off the rails or a less optimal choice gets made and frankly... that's fine. Mista…

Totally agree. Reminds me of a quote from Peopleware:

"Most managers give themselves excellent grades on knowing when to trust their people and when not to. But in our experience, too many managers err on the side of mistrust. They follow the basic premise that their people may operate completely autonomously, as long as they operate correctly. This amounts to no autonomy at all. The only freedom that has any meaning is the freedom to proceed differently from the way your manager would have proceeded. This is true in a broader sense, too: The right to be right (in your manager’s eyes or in your government’s eyes) is irrelevant; it’s only the right to be wrong that makes you free."

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#15

At the same time, how many of us have been burnt when delegation goes wrong? I think managers have a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" attitude that inevitably leads to small tasks and less delegation of responsibility after a few bad experiences with developers wandering off in the woods and building what they want and not what is needed.

It is also really nice to trust a developer enough where I can give a broad tasks and not worry about it. It takes a big cognitive load off of me.

I don't enjoy small tasks as a manager but they can be necessary depending on how much I trust someone.

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#16

I had a project assigned that I was completely responsible for, except that every technical and architectural decision was made for me. As I became more familiar with the project I raise concerns about these choices as they introduced maintainability and performance issues, but was overruled and told to stay the course. The project was a failure. I feel like if you're not coding a project, your opinion on it is less…

That sucks. I worked in a role where I had to make decisions like that for the "implementers." Nobody liked that system. I left and so did almost everybody else.

In my current company, design tasks are just tickets, but we tend to assign implementation tasks to the same people who did the design tickets, when possible. However, design gets done in isolation, with little to no consultation. Some factors can trigger a design review, but it comes so late in the process that changing anything at that point is disruptive and regarded as a kind of failure.

Much better (in my opinion) is for one person, who will also implement the design if plans permit, to be responsible for the design, but the process of designing to be done "in public." Somebody is responsible for making sure the design is done on schedule, documented, etc., and they have the final call on any contentious issues, but it is discussed by everybody who is interested, and the meetings are publicized and open to anybody who wants to come. Since it is public, you get ideas from the most people, raise awareness so negative impacts to other systems are more likely to be spotted, and generally raise the level of understanding of the system as a whole among all the developers. Since it is individually owned, there is a single point of contact for product and management, it's clear who needs to be allocated time for documentation and research, and the implementer gets to feel a sense of ownership.

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#17

At the same time, how many of us have been burnt when delegation goes wrong? I think managers have a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" attitude that inevitably leads to small tasks and less delegation of responsibility after a few bad experiences with developers wandering off in the woods and building what they want and not what is needed.

The bigger problem is that if you delegate A and B to Vincent as the article suggests is that often it becomes King Vincent lord and ruler of A and B. They are the only one allowed to touch A and B, and worse may be the only one's capable of touching A and B. You can end up with a bunch of these little fiefdoms and getting anything done quickly becomes an issue of appeasing a few petty despots.

That's a little bit extreme for example but there's definitely benefits to standardizing things across projects.

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#18

At the same time, how many of us have been burnt when delegation goes wrong? I think managers have a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" attitude that inevitably leads to small tasks and less delegation of responsibility after a few bad experiences with developers wandering off in the woods and building what they want and not what is needed.

Delegating and trusting someone doesn't mean a task never goes badly. Part of delegation is meeting and touching base with work that is ongoing. Participate in code reviews, have regular 1:1s with people you are delegating to. And yes, you're not going to end up with your exact vision when you delegate. The question is whether the end goal is sufficient and minimal, and if not then you should evolve that with the oth…

Absolutely delegation should still mean being involved in the process and being receptive to course correction from the people carrying out the work. This is how things should work.

Ideally.

In practice I've seen it go the opposite way where management's reaction is trust less and less, making smaller and smaller tasks. Developers aren't innocent either, instead of griping about having less control, they throw up their hands and work-to-rule. Doesn't matter if the task description has obvious problems, that's what is getting implemented. Nothing less and nothing more.

Honestly this all comes off as toxic. Maybe it's high time to leave where I am seeing this all go on.

Re: Little Tasks, Little Trust

#20
This essay is full of awful advice and is more about the author venting that their work isn't organized how they like. I would recommend they found a startup and experiment with the kind of structure they think would work best and see how it scales!

>No backlog grooming meetings or burn-down charts either. Your manager simply looked at how your products were coming along. A little trust, some accountability, and a healthy portion of “give me some space to do my work.”

The author speaks as though they have never been in the situation where their team delivered a product that meets the spec but isn't actually useful to their customers. Agile (what the author means when they speak about tasks/backlogs) doesn't guarantee this problem will be fully solved by doing by-the-numbers scrum or w/e, but the system they are flirting with in this essay is almost certainly worse. It's a complete recapitulation of waterfall/cowboy and adhoc design processes, without the honesty to interrogate why these processes failed organizations large and small.

>As I see it, little tasks are born of a fundamentally different management attitude. Small tasks are a not-so-subtle way of saying that all the product vision lies with management. Keep away. Don’t touch.

The author is talking, here, about how encountering agile makes them feel. This is not a universal experience. I would reply that we have a division of labor/responsibility because technical personnel are often some of the worst people to speak for the customer, and history has born this out.

>Then you went back to your private office (I sure miss private offices, but that is a topic for another day) and fixed a few things. Later, in a weekly status meeting you would tell people how it went — yep, that’s right, no daily stand-ups where you look mournfully at your shoes and admit that you didn’t make any notable progress yet.

Once again, the author is telling on themselves If they don't like feeling like they aren't making progress, it's almost always because they aren't motivated or need help. Certain team strutures (e.g. Mob Programming) actually produce incentives for this sort of task-going-nowhere problem to be addressed constructively (also against silo-ing, another perverse tendency that this author implicitly endorses throughout the essay).

As an aside, I agree about the communal working space trend in tech being shitty, if you team can't work communally. This is a problem that agile practices are only beginning to address (again, please see Mob Programming for a way to deal with this).

>Sadly, as developers, we do it to ourselves as well. Once someone gives us a better title, we are right on board with the program. When a regular developer might have had a chance to do some research or design, we immediately snatch it away for ourselves.

This is a philosophical non-sequitur. How are tasks related to snatching design work away from non-architect/technical-lead developers? Any team that wants to spread around design work can address this and whether a team does agile/task-based work has no bearing.

>Worse yet, we design every product’s architecture, and expect any deviation to be approved by us first. All that is left are tiny morsels. Grunt work for the foot soldiers once the fun has been stripped away.

The author moves and back and forth between speaking as a grunt developer and speaking as an architect/technical-lead, and it's quite confusing. They are also, per their bio, a fan of "organizational self-management". Furthermore:

>“I am Amerigo, the product guy. Heretofore, no developer will make product decisions, for they are mine.” >“And I am Ferdinand, process guy. Heretofore, no developer will make process decisions, for they are mine.” >“I Bartolomeu will enforce compliance.” >“I Vasco used to be pretty good at Microsoft Access, I guess I’ll be the database guy.”

I feel like you put all of these things together and get a picture of a programmer who I, personally, would be absolutely terrified to allow in front of a customer, let alone expect them to work constructively with other functional stakeholders.

For the record: I'm a technical lead in a medium-sized (~150 developer seats, many more non-technical roles) enterprise software organization. Most of my experience is in the enterprise/consulting space and my perspective reflects that.

I think the kind of unstructured/responsibility-based approach the author advocates is naive and says more about their problems working with others than it does about how dysfunctional agile can be. I think the main barriers to teams delivering is how to cooperate to deliver consistently and sustainably, and not that rockstars needs to be set free to pursue their own agenda within vaguely defined boundaries of responsibility.

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