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First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

bbc.com

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Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#131

Post by figaroniguzo »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #94
refurb wrote: post #69

As this rolls out I thought Derek Lowe had a good point to make https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/04/ge... When you vaccinate this many people, you will have those people die, get heart attacks, strokes, cancer, etc. Why? Because that would have happened to them anyways, vaccine or not. So don’t freak out when “issues” start to crop up. Wait until someone has a done a proper analysis to see if th…

Funny that covid deaths are diagnosed the other way around: even if you die WITH covid it's assumed that you died BECAUSE of covid. But when it comes to the vaccine it should be the other way around? So we have to apply common sense to the vaccine related deaths but not to the covid related deaths?

Same for "long term COVID" - doesn't matter most symptoms can easily be explained by anxiety due to the amount of fearmongering. But definitely not for the vaccine side effects!

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#132

Post by soylentgraham »

daveed wrote: post #52

> Second in line for the jab at University Hospital in Coventry was 81-year-old William Shakespeare from Warwickshire His high priority must've been on purpose, right?

Typical, celebrities getting priority.

Gotta admire how good the vaccine is though, reviving the dead

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#133

Post by figaroniguzo »

Munksgaard wrote: post #115
OneGuy123 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny that covid deaths are diagnosed the other way around: even if you die WITH covid it's assumed that you died BECAUSE of covid. But when it comes to the vaccine it should be the other way around? So we have to apply common sense to the vaccine related deaths but not to the covid related deaths?

Is this really true? I know that, at least here in Denmark, the relevant authority has sent out a note saying, explicitly, that dying of eg. a heart attack, while infected with COVID-19, does not count as a COVID-19 death. It also explicitly says the same thing about motor-cycle accidents, which I know has been a rumor that has made the rounds. Source: https://sundhedsdatastyrelsen.dk/-/media/sds/filer/rammer-og...

10 seconds Googling: https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-cras...

Many other stories like that

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#134

Post by SlateBlate »

hannob wrote: post #84
SlateBlate wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this comment getting downvoted? seems like a fair question. I've seen this now in several threads where even questioning side effects of the vaccine gets downvoted and looked down upon like they did something illegal. This is not HN I used to know.

There's a tendency to highlight risks and sideeffects of this vaccine that is without any basis. It's reasonable to ask what the risks are, but unspecific ramblings about risks aren't helpful and it's unreasonable to highlight very hypothetical risks compared to the very real risks of getting Covid-19. Right now the risk issue seems pretty clearcut: There were no serious sideeffects in the trials. What gave me additi…

> It's reasonable to ask what the risks are, but unspecific ramblings about risks aren't helpful and it's unreasonable to highlight very hypothetical risks compared to the very real risks of getting Covid-19.

Where was this ramblings on OP's comment? He genuinly asked a question without mentioning any side effects. Why is it being downvoted?

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#135

Post by dTal »

peteretep wrote: post #73
dTal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this specific instance, you're probably right that there will be paperwork. However, in general, acute healthcare in free in the UK and does not even require ID. I don't know if that's how it's "meant" to be, but that's how it is; if you're on vacation in the UK and something bad happens, you can just turn up at the nearest hospital and it will get sorted out, no bill no fuss.

How it’s “meant” to be is that you’re asked for where you’re registered, and your NHS records are pulled up, and if you’re not registered at a GP practice or in the NHS system you get a bill

That's not what happens, though. You can just say "I'm not registered with a GP" (and many people aren't), and you will still be treated - no bill.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#136

Post by iguy »

sgerenser wrote: post #104
checker659 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops pfizer from selling directly to customers?

Lack of supply. They’ve already pre-sold all they could make to governments.

Presumably they pre-sold based on estimates of their production. I would not be very surprised if it turns out they can make 10% more than they committed, and auction this off. And would expect hospitals treating Saudi princelings & the like to win such an auction.

But does anyone actually know what these pre-sale contracts look like? They must have some wiggle room in case production doesn't go as well as planned... are there just penalties for late delivery to specific customers, or explicitly tied to total production, or did they literally sell places in the queue, or what?

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#137

Post by robjan »

dTal wrote: post #61
robjan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state will not provide it to non-residents. As soon as you arrive in the UK, immigration stamps "no recourse to public funds" in black all-caps into your passport as a friendly reminder.

In this specific instance, you're probably right that there will be paperwork. However, in general, acute healthcare in free in the UK and does not even require ID. I don't know if that's how it's "meant" to be, but that's how it is; if you're on vacation in the UK and something bad happens, you can just turn up at the nearest hospital and it will get sorted out, no bill no fuss.

Foreign nationals without a visa (and non-resident British people, like me now) do receive a bill. I used to work in the department that recovers the money.

The rates are in an excel file linked on this page. Visitors pay 150% of the published rate. https://improvement.nhs.uk/resources/national-tariff/

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#138

Post by jeromegv »

checker659 wrote: post #130
bencoder wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the billions that governments have paid for their place in the queue

India alone has 759k millionaires. Assuming each has a family of four, and they’re willing to pay just $500 for a two shot course on an exclusive basis (say). That alone will be make pfizer about 1.58 billion dollars. There are 13555k millionaires outside of Europe and US. The 1.9 billion paid by the US government for 100million viles pales in front of what pfizer could earn by catering to the rich. So, again, my que…

They are already sold out. There’s no spare. And yes they can sell to millionaire but states purchases millions of doses at a Time, not 5.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#139

Post by chimprich »

refurb wrote: post #123
chimprich wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any evidence for serious side-effects from mRNA vaccines. The vaccines have undergone significant testing, and they're not doing anything magical. If you're going to insinuate that the vaccines have significant risks, you should provide some evidence. (This bar should also be a bit higher in my opinion in the middle of a public health emergency.) Compare a statement like "5g has great potential, but I'm r…

The vaccines have undergone significant testing, and they're not doing anything magical. "Significant testing" is 20,000 people. We're preparing to roll it out to billions. That's not "significant testing". If there was a 1 in 500,000 side effect, you'd never see it in the trials. And yes, these vaccines are doing something "magical". We've never had an mRNA vaccine rolled out to the general public before. That said,…

> "Significant testing" is 20,000 people. We're preparing to roll it out to billions. That's not "significant testing". If there was a 1 in 500,000 side effect, you'd never see it in the trials.

That is significant testing. It is correct that you might not see a 1 in 500,000 side-effect in testing, but a 1 in 500,000 adverse effect is probably a risk factor that most people could accept.

> And yes, these vaccines are doing something "magical". We've never had an mRNA vaccine rolled out to the general public before.

Our cells regularly process strands of mRNA by the billion. I don't believe the vaccine is doing anything particularly "magical". It's completely right that we should test that, but I don't think there's any reason to be more concerned than any other new type of treatment.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#140

Post by checker659 »

refurb wrote: post #119
checker659 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not NHS, but what’s stopping private companies from purchasing from pfizer at 10x markup and selling to willing customers?

I don't think private parties will have any access to vaccine for a while. Can you imagine the shit storm if some wealth person got vaccinated ahead of the doctors treating dying Covid patients. Ain't gonna happen.

> Can you imagine the shit storm if some wealthy person got vaccinated ahead of the doctors

In an ideal world, I suppose not. But, in the real world, I think I can. Yes.

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