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Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

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Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#81

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

pjmlp wrote: post #56
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #42

I'm impressed with the rate of progress in the Linux distros for smartphones due to these devices, especially the Pinephone as it's more accessible. But I honestly expected few major phone manufacturers to join these development effort in some manner after seeing the fate of Huawei with Android or specifically Google Play Services/OHA(Open Handset Alliance), I'm surprised it didn't happen yet or perhaps it's because…

Huawei now is pushing their mikro-kernel based OS, nothing to do with Linux, Harmony OS. Ironically it used to be a research project demoed a few times at FOSDEN and US gave them a reason to bring it into production. Tizen is also being used in Samsung's smart TVs. LG has WebOS and Sharp Aquos. And then there is ChromeOS as well. Basically, GNU/Linux desktop has proven to not be something that general public even con…

There is no doubt on the issue of chicken-and-egg problem with the app ecosystem, but wouldn't it be the only problem or even say the major problem to address if the manufacturers get on to supporting mainline Linux for smartphones instead of developing a completely new operating system from the scratch.

Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#82

Post by belorn »

O1111OOO wrote: post #27

> For the vast majority of people, the Librem 5 and Pinephone are probably not worth even considering. The GNU userspace and associated “mobile” paradigms within it are very much not ready for daily use. > Linux phones are definitely not yet ready to be daily drivers Despite the author making this point twice and some of the negativity regarding Purism's pricing - I still feel very good about the state of Linux phone…

The move towards functional linux phones are moving forward and with noticeable steps, and when my libre 5 phone arrive it will be interesting to see how close they have gotten. That said, my expectations are low when it comes to the base set in daily use:

1) managing 3G/2G network. There seems to be quite a few hacks in the telecom infrastructure and I have long suspected that mobile phone operating systems are simply expected to handle each unique occurrence. I expect calls will occasionally fail, especially for answering and calling, but also in transitioning between networks.

2) Bluetooth audio support for calling is already known to be broken. I can only hope it will be fixed some time in the future, but I suspect different devices for handing handsfree calls will have their own hacks which won't be supported.

3) As the article alluded to, the GPS software has a bunch of hacks to address short comings. I am expecting there to be both long delays at finding signals and strange jumps in accuracy. Since my personal interaction with a GPS tend to be in moments where delays will be very noticeable, like when you entered the car and waiting for the map to show where to go before starting the car, delays and inaccuracy will be noticeable in such use.

4) For music it will need to interact with other devices, especially over Bluetooth, and I strongly suspect each manufacturer has it own hacks in how to do track progression, rewind/forward, play lists and so on.

5) Android app support. Here I have some hope that Anbox will work. I am however worried that a lot of apps will break in strange ways when run in a emulator from missing dependencies or strange hacks.

Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#84

Post by mike-cardwell »

fsflover wrote: post #78
mike-cardwell wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article basically says that if I turn wifi off and don't use the phone, it still wont even last a whole day, in the best case... To me, that's abysmal.

True, but it will be sufficiently improved with software updates.

If that happens, then the phone becomes viable. Until that date, it's just an expensive toy to tinker with.

Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#86

Post by MartijnBraam »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #66
ben-schaaf wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every app in the Manjaro distribution that ships pre-installed should at least fit on the screen; many apps have popups that do not. Sounds like an issue you should bring up with the application authors. These are usually easy fixes. > Either give up on having a camera or make it _fast_. We've already seen demos of the camera running at 60fps. Why would you want people to "give up" on a perfectly achievable goal?

Camera framerate may have been fixed, but just opening the camera app on Mobian takes a few seconds. People are used nowadays to their camera app opening near-instantly, so they can capture fleeting moments.

I've pushed a Megapixels update that makes the app launch a bunch faster and the camera preview is a lot smoother too

Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#87

Post by fsflover »

paulcarroty wrote: post #85

There's the third way: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices You can buy the used devices cheaper than Pinephone and play with them. Not perfect hardware support, but enough for hackable mobile device with privacy and low-distraction mode.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25343592

>with privacy

There is no privacy with all proprietary drivers. There is no security either.

Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#88

Post by imtringued »

SulfurHexaFluri wrote: post #7
fsflover wrote: post #2

About the USA-made version of Librem 5: > it’s kind of appalling that literally anyone would pay this much. It’s kind of appalling that Purism would charge this much. I can imagine a scheme where the parts are shipped from China, and verified and assembled by a part-time college student in the States and they’d likely still be able to price it cheaper than $1999.00. There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chine…

I'm not sure why they even offer the USA option. It hardly adds any real value, no one will buy it and people will just whinge about it. At least it does provide one data point on what it costs to do though.

Certified crimping tools can cost more than this phone. I don't think you can draw any conclusions based on this data point. The price is that high because they will be made to order. They never expected more than a hundred orders in the first place.

Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#89

Post by pjmlp »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #81
pjmlp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huawei now is pushing their mikro-kernel based OS, nothing to do with Linux, Harmony OS. Ironically it used to be a research project demoed a few times at FOSDEN and US gave them a reason to bring it into production. Tizen is also being used in Samsung's smart TVs. LG has WebOS and Sharp Aquos. And then there is ChromeOS as well. Basically, GNU/Linux desktop has proven to not be something that general public even con…

There is no doubt on the issue of chicken-and-egg problem with the app ecosystem, but wouldn't it be the only problem or even say the major problem to address if the manufacturers get on to supporting mainline Linux for smartphones instead of developing a completely new operating system from the scratch.

That leads to the same problem that killed Netbooks, besides the XP price dumping, and also plagues the PC and Android eco-systems, differentiation.

Mainline GNU/Linux isn't something that makes average consumer pick vendor A or B when looking for a new device at the shopping mall.

And the hardware alone also doesn't sell, it must be the whole vertical experience on how software + hardware work together to bring that experience into existence.

Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone

#90

Post by fsflover »

pjmlp wrote: post #89
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no doubt on the issue of chicken-and-egg problem with the app ecosystem, but wouldn't it be the only problem or even say the major problem to address if the manufacturers get on to supporting mainline Linux for smartphones instead of developing a completely new operating system from the scratch.

That leads to the same problem that killed Netbooks, besides the XP price dumping, and also plagues the PC and Android eco-systems, differentiation. Mainline GNU/Linux isn't something that makes average consumer pick vendor A or B when looking for a new device at the shopping mall. And the hardware alone also doesn't sell, it must be the whole vertical experience on how software + hardware work together to bring that…

> And the hardware alone also doesn't sell, it must be the whole vertical experience on how software + hardware work together to bring that experience into existence.

This is exactly why Librem 5 is more promising as Purism develop both hardware and software.

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