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Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

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Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#241

Post by webmobdev »

rglullis wrote: post #239
webmobdev wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we shouldn't be giving this much power to institutions. In a democracy, the government derives power from us, the people. In a good and functioning democracy there exists other democratic institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them. "Vote with your wallet" is a disingenuous argument were all the corporates work together like a cartel towards a particular business model that ma…

> In a good and functioning democracy (...) institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them. This is the idealistic view. In the real world we have people in power, with their own personal interests, with institutions that are ever more distant from the people and with ever less consequences to face when they do wrong. The one exception is perhaps Switzerland, and this would be more…

> This is the idealistic view.

You work with the reality you live in, but you do strive for idealism. If you don't, you stagnate as the society rots.

The reality today is that in some democracies the balance of power has shifted from the people to the corporates. And that's unacceptable. Thinking that this is what's the best achievable in your democracy is just nihilistic and pessimistic attitude. Sitting silent is not an option. Regulation is one of the tools through which the government restores the balance between the corporates and the people. And it is possible to strike the right balance between the greed of the corporates and the need of the people.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#242

Post by musicale »

> I believe Apple should simply refuse to cooperate with oppressive governments – but this is an unlikely scenario, as they have extremely close ties and dependence to China, a current perpetrator of genocide against the Uyghurs.

I could imagine Apple eventually moving its supply chain out of China, but it seems unlikely that they would be willing to be blocked from China's marketplace as Google services are. I wonder where Pixel phones and Chromebooks are manufactured, and where their components are sourced?

I would also like to see Apple refuse to cooperate with authoritarian governments, but I don't see that happening sadly.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#243

Post by rglullis »

webmobdev wrote: post #241
rglullis wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a good and functioning democracy (...) institutions to ensure that the government cannot abuse the powers granted to them. This is the idealistic view. In the real world we have people in power, with their own personal interests, with institutions that are ever more distant from the people and with ever less consequences to face when they do wrong. The one exception is perhaps Switzerland, and this would be more…

> This is the idealistic view. You work with the reality you live in, but you do strive for idealism. If you don't, you stagnate as the society rots. The reality today is that in some democracies the balance of power has shifted from the people to the corporates. And that's unacceptable. Thinking that this is what's the best achievable in your democracy is just nihilistic and pessimistic attitude. Sitting silent is n…

You are not "working with the reality you live in", you are effectively ignoring and denying reality in order to be able to sustain your worldview.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#244

Post by logifail »

jevgeni wrote: post #99
webmobdev wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want ALL my subscriptions to go through Apple Pay and App store. You do so only because you believe have no choice as you know that your democracy is so crippled that you don't expect them to protect your rights as a consumer any more! Where as many Europeans and Asians, who also enjoy democratic rights, will tell you openly that we would prefer that our democratically elected government protect our consumer righ…

First of all, as a European, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Try cancelling your mobile contract in Germany early. Secondly, I might want to buy/subscribe to things that come from companies outside of EU.

> Try cancelling your mobile contract in Germany early

Don't many operators offer mobile phone contracts that are effectively a subsidy for the low up-front cost of the device[0] ?

"Apple iPhone 12 for £49.99 upfront cost" plus you pay the rest of the cost of the phone over the life of the contract.

[0] https://www.carphonewarehouse.com/mobiles/pay-monthly.html

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#245

Post by unishark »

harry8 wrote: post #233
unishark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is when it comes to censorship, taking the high road of refusing to collude with the government and ceasing to operate in the country (whether willingly or by non-compliance leading to being banned yourself) has ultimately the same effect as following the law. The communication which the govt wants to censor gets censored.

"Someone else will do it if I don't so I might as well get paid for assisting evil." It's a common enough point of view. I disagree with it myself. There's plenty to discuss about just how evil it has to be before you can't live with it anymore. Those are interesting discussion. Binary discussions based on purity are usually pretty dull.

So do you also agree with sanctions against the population? In a sense, censorship is an inaction for a communications company, not a positive act of assistance. Apple doesn't get paid for actually censoring anything. They get paid for whatever legal services they can still sell to innocent civilians. Suppose they were selling food and the govt insists they refuse to sell food to an opposition group. Taking the high road and refusing to play ball is to starve everyone, not just the people the govt wants to starve.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#246

Post by webmobdev »

rglullis wrote: post #243
webmobdev wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the idealistic view. You work with the reality you live in, but you do strive for idealism. If you don't, you stagnate as the society rots. The reality today is that in some democracies the balance of power has shifted from the people to the corporates. And that's unacceptable. Thinking that this is what's the best achievable in your democracy is just nihilistic and pessimistic attitude. Sitting silent is n…

You are not "working with the reality you live in", you are effectively ignoring and denying reality in order to be able to sustain your worldview.

I am advocating political action for change in a democracy. Unless you live in a country that doesn't claim to be a democracy, this applies to any democracy. Just because your democracy is being screwed by the power to be, doesn't mean you stop believing in it and stop fighting for it.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#247

Post by fsflover »

zepto wrote: post #217
fsflover wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want Apple then an alternative will indeed not help you. If you don't want Android then the alternative provides an opportunity not to be forced into Android.

Sure, but as I said, that’s not what this thread was about.

I disagree. The original quote: "I really don't want to be forced to buy an Android phone". One can interpret it in a way that the person does not want to be forced into Android as the only alternative to Apple. In this case, my comment should be helpful.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#248

Post by modo_mario »

totalZero wrote: post #222
modo_mario wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What IS it about Apple that makes a certain class of tech geek feel like they have to dislike them in such a public and performative way? Well in this case some of the reasons seem to be anticompetitive behaviour. Tech geeks like to use their general purpose machines where they have a choice to pick their preferred tools and programs rather than feel like they're being pushed to get trapped in a walled garden of eve…

The counterargument is that Apple is not at fault for its own success, and it would be anti-competitive to hamstring Apple simply because its ecosystem is profitable. The company clearly does not have market control in personal computing hardware, and competes with Samsung and others in the mobile device market, so what exactly is the reason that Apple can't try to convert its platform into a conduit for services rev…

>The counterargument is that Apple is not at fault for its own success

No it isn't a counterargument unless you think it's success is solely the consequence of it's anticompetitive market practices...in which case yes it's definitely at fault for it's own success.

>so what exactly is the reason that Apple can't try to convert its platform into a conduit for services revenue?

They can charge high rates by virtue of having created a monopsony in what's essentially a duopoly. This is bad for the consumer. This is bad for competition. This is bad for capitalism.

It's entrenched enough and able enough to extract this way that it's value soared to more than the GDP of a host of countries including Italy, Brazil, Canada and Russia and still there's plenty licking their boot because their product is good.

If a water utility country delivers the freshest and well filtered water to your home if it does so at ridiculous rates because it pushes legislature in it's favour and stomps on the competition using it's clout then that's still a shit state of affair

The fact that there's an alternative option in a duopoly rolling with these high rates protecting both from being called out and split up doesn't matter much. Especially if they only deliver sparkling water which you happen to dislike. Looking back it's a bad analogy because these companies would do a whole host more than just water and interconnect their services.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#249

Post by rglullis »

webmobdev wrote: post #246
rglullis wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not "working with the reality you live in", you are effectively ignoring and denying reality in order to be able to sustain your worldview.

I am advocating political action for change in a democracy. Unless you live in a country that doesn't claim to be a democracy, this applies to any democracy. Just because your democracy is being screwed by the power to be, doesn't mean you stop believing in it and stop fighting for it.

The issue is that the medicine you are proposing is oftentimes worse than the disease.

You call for increased regulations as a way to control corporations and "more power to the Government" but don't acknowledge the number of times that the elites have subverted the institutions for their own benefit. Sorry for the bluntness, but that is either malice or stupidity.

You completely ignored my argument that is important to look at the scale and reach of the democratic institution you're dealing with. It's all good if you say that you are working for democracy. It is not okay of your idea of democracy is to have some federal bureaucrat responsible in making decisions that affect so many people at once and does not take into account the desires and peculiarities of the people in the local level. I don't want Federal Government being responsible for and the arbiter of matters that are in the realm of the city council, much like I don't want the city council to step into things that should be in the realm of my neighbors association. The scale of power and reach matters. Do you understand that?

It seems your idea of "fighting for democracy" is in advocating more power and authority in an single entity and more central planning. History is filled with examples where centralization of power has always led to tyranny and abuse. Road to hell paved with good intentions and all...

So, before you start advocating for regulations that can affect so many people and have so many catastrophic unintended consequences, consider acting on the change on the smallest possible level: you. Once you do it and can honestly tell that the change was good, then you go a little bit higher in your circle and advocate for them to adopt the policies you did. Go bottom-up, not top-down. Not only is the most realistic way to affect change, it is the most ethical one.

Re: Falling Out of Love with Apple, Part 3: Content and Censorship

#250

Post by f1refly »

wayneftw wrote: post #183
f1refly wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to be that guy, but I copy paste clipboard contents across devices with kde connect. It's so reliable that I tried doing it when fixing my mum's computer without realizing it's not a magic built in thing that computers just do for some reason.

I can't find this for iOS, but I only searched briefly. I did see some Reddit thread about someone creating an iOS port but saying that it lacked all the functionality of the Android app.

Considering that your're not allowed to do anything interesting with the system when developing for ios, that's not surprising to me. I connect my android with my gnu/linux machine and my windows videogame box, that's all I tested.
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