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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#691
post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

This is why I'm moving to Vancouver, BC. Safe, walkable, low pollution, high density of tech co's, beautiful people.

And even more expensive, when you factor in that us Canadian tech workers on the whole get paid much less, and Vancouver real estate is sky high.

Nice city though.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a LGBT member in a red state (Florida), the idea that California's protections or perceptions of LGBT people are unique is just absurd. I'm in my early 20's and have never faced any discrimination that would warrant an interaction with the police. Amongst my friends, the police have always been extremely helpful. The only divide that exists is between cities and rural areas. Virtually every city is going to have a…

There's a difference between mere acceptance (legal and social), and ability to flourish, no? And banning conversion therapy, that seems like a super low bar for LGBT friendliness. I am merely tolerated where I currently live, but when I was in the SFBA I had a whole community, recurring events, and there was much more visiblity to LGBT people than there is where I am now.

Yes, there is a difference between acceptance and ability to flourish. However, I found that ability to flourish is absolutely there and personally don't have that feeling of being simply tolerated. It's certainly possible where you live.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between mere acceptance (legal and social), and ability to flourish, no? And banning conversion therapy, that seems like a super low bar for LGBT friendliness. I am merely tolerated where I currently live, but when I was in the SFBA I had a whole community, recurring events, and there was much more visiblity to LGBT people than there is where I am now.

Yes, there is a difference between acceptance and ability to flourish. However, I found that ability to flourish is absolutely there and personally don't have that feeling of being simply tolerated. It's certainly possible where you live.

I'm glad you've found that. I'm sure it's possible here too, although with more effort, but with pandemic, and my general introverted nature, it's been very hard to do.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#694
post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

Car-free living is possible in San Francisco and Berkeley. If you do it anywhere else you will suffer.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/out-in-the-united-states-where-can ... and see if anything's changed since I last checked. This analysis is shallow and has a thumb on the scale in favor of California. The author says of same-sex marriage: “There is much talk at the federal level by the presumed GOP candidate of creating legislation that would remove this…

> California, by contrast, reacted to an identical court ruling in 2008 by banning same-sex marriage until all such laws were overturned in 2015. This is a cherry-picked example and a bad-faith argument. You're trying to portray the CA Prop 8 battle as demonstrating that CA was/is regressive. It does not show that. It's more accurate to say that there was a national debate going on at the time, and the open-ness of t…

> This is a cherry-picked example and a bad-faith argument.

What’s the trend of claiming arguments are in “bad faith?” It’s like a verbal tic people have developed recently.

I didn’t “cherry pick” anything. The very first step of the author’s analysis was to exclude states that had banned same-sex marriage prior to Obergefell on the theory that federal law could be changed. That exclusion carried through all the subsequent winnowing steps of the author’s analysis, because each step built on the previous step. By the author’s own logic—that she wouldn’t want to live in a state that had banned same-sex marriage prior to Obergefell, because of the potential for changes in federal law—California should have been crossed off the list.

It’s fair to say public opinion in California has changed since 2008, but that’s true all over the country. I’m just applying the author’s own logic. And you’re incorrect: Prop 8 was implemented. A federal district court enjoined Prop. 8, but that order was itself stayed by the 9th circuit. Marriage licenses were not issued from 2009-2013. The Supreme Court dismissed the challenge to the injunction in 2013 on procedural grounds, and marriage licenses resumed. By then the writing was already on the wall with the Supreme Court’s decision in Windsor.

The premise of the article isn’t which urban areas “support” for LGBT rights goes the deepest. It’s looking at states which enacted legislation that might give LGBT people a reason to not want to live there. A large number of states banned same sex marriage in their constitutions between 2000-2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_constitutional_amen.... It’s notable that California was one of those states. Minnesota and Iowa and Indiana didn’t. Neither did West Virginia, Pennsylvania, etc., along with most of the northeast and Maryland and Delaware. These is something to be said for the culture of places that may not be “progressive” but unlike California were tolerant enough to not have jumped on that constitutional amendment bandwagon.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#696
post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

s/SF/NYC/g

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think SVs appeal is that you can leave in a quiet suburb close to a lot of easily accessible nature, while still having Amazon 2-day shipping, ridesharing, Uber Eats, and luxury retail. There's not many places in the US like this. Europe has a lot but there's not much tech jobs in them. You are also close to SF if you like the madness of the city every once in a while. Other suburby places with nature easily access…

I think the last unspoken one and perhaps most important one in this list is access to family in the APAC region. The other proposals (i.e. Colorado, Arizona, etc.) have all the other stuff but not the access to Asia. Looking at air travel - Denver to India or Austin to China - everything is a 1 day+ and over $2000+. SF/LA to these places is about 15 hours and about $1500. If the business (i.e. Apple/Google making ph…

I fly to China quite often from Austin, it's not that bad, you do AUS-DFW-PVR,PEK... you only lose an hour or so for the short hop, the DFW-China leg is basically the same from SFO

Also from AUS, you have Houston and Dallas as two big airport options to get to China.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#698
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managers are nothing but employees. Same as developers and other groups. The owners might consider their opinions along with the opinions of the other groups. There is nothing special about managers. And it is the owners who decide how and what to spend their money on. Not the managers. >"..won't have a say, explicitly or implicitly..." Nice try. What are you implying under "implicitely"? If this is what I think it i…

"There is nothing special about managers." Managers are very often (especially in a bigger organization) is the only channel how information flows to owners. As a result, managers can paint very different picture of the same situation (as an example, that people working remotely from home are less productive). May be in some abstract world, "managers are just employees and there is nothing special". In reality they w…

>"As a result, managers can paint very different picture of the same situation..."

What you describing is a fraud. In a big organization managers are not uniform group, there are multiple levels and factions. They will happily report on each other if the picture is grossly distorted. There are also a lot of metrics and built in controls in big orgs that can and are being used to estimate how particular policy affects the bottom line (profitability).

In reality there are companies whose bottom line did suffer from WFH and there are companies that had actually have profits increased as the result. If you think the latter group will revert because some low level managers feel insecure about their position I have a bridge to sell.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago is pretty segregated, but the transit situation is easily the best of any major US city. A car helps you get places quicker, but an adventurous person can get all over the city easily on the buses and trains and any given neighborhood is very walkable. The main issue is the cold. You have 3 months of amazing summer and 8 months of cold with two weeks of spring and fall on either end. If you're not from the Mi…

Cold is fine. Getting robbed at gunpoint isn't. That's the real Chicago you have to contend with.

Only place I’ve been robbed is SF (Tenderloin, 2002). Only place I’ve had my car broken into is SFBA (Berkeley 2008, San Jose and SF in 2018).

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is it's the 'fuck off we're full' people that have made CA policy shitty. It's the NIMBY anti-change response to policy. The people that want a strong economy, incentivize building housing, and adapting lead to positive non-zero-sum outcomes. The people that say "fuck off we're full" block any policy and create perverse incentives that create a dysfunctional mess. This is ignoring the selection bias that th…

The first "we're full" bumper sticker I ever saw was Austin in 1998. RIP Travis Heights, East Austin. It's not like most of the SFBA fleeing refugees here were natives. They were kids from schools MI, NY, PA, IL and TX. The Menlo Park, Mountain View equivalents entrenched in West Austin are pretty fed up already so we'll see how it all turns out in 5 -10 years as the nextgen 3.0 descend on Silicon Hills.

To be fair, y'all did your best to dissuade expansion by intentionally avoiding some infrastructure improvements in the 90's and 00's. But then people came anyway, and it became impossible to ignore forever. This isn't to cast aspersions on either people who were fighting for better transit across those decades, or people who wanted to keep Austin somewhat smaller. Just my observations from across my life, with family/friends in the area, spending good amount of time there each year.

The ACT stuff is long-overdue and the new CapMetro Connect project is great. Hopefully it gets funded and built with fewer bumps along the way than Houston's 5-line rail network (which is still sitting at only 3-and-a-half of 5 lines built).

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