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SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

arstechnica.com

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Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#121

Post by myself248 »

madamelic wrote: post #89
ccorda wrote: post #47

This was a reverse auction, where the goal was to minimze cost to government to get high speed internet in rural areas. Starlink bid in the Above Baseline tier, meaning ≥ 100/20 Mbps (with data cap of ≥ 2 TB). According to the FCC [1], 99.7% of locations are at that tier or higher, and 85%+ in the highest Gigabit (1000/500) tier. So it looks like the auction funded gigabit where there was a provider bidding at that t…

>One question I have is whether these gigabit deployments actually happen, No. Every time the US gives money to telecoms to roll out fiber, the telecoms play a shell game and disappear the money or use it to fight against municipalities that try to build their own infrastructure. https://nationaleconomicseditorial.com/2017/11/27/americans-...

Thank you for that link. I remember the disappearance of the Project Pronto money in the 90s, and it's bothered me ever since. It's nice to know I didn't dream the whole thing.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#122

Post by notthemessiah »

elihu wrote: post #42

I read a theory once that one of the reasons why so many Boomers were able to buy land or houses cheaply that later appreciated substantially in value was the interstate highway system built during WWII. Suddenly, a lot of real estate was in easy driving range of employers, and so there was a period of over-supply of highly desirable real estate. I wonder if Starlink (and changes in work expectations due to the pande…

Ain't a theory, it's by design: Robert Moses was the architect of this suburban vision of America. Not only did they pave the way out of the city, the highways also paved over the homes of millions of existing residents in the city, displacing them further out. Furthermore, highways were often used as barriers between rich and poor neighborhoods. You should read The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#123

Post by derekp7 »

bumby wrote: post #100
juanbyrge wrote: post #9

If there is any corporate entity I'd happy giving public funding, it would be SpaceX. Their end goal is to settle Mars and potentially other bodies in the solar system. Compared with the absurd amounts of money wasted on defense contractors, I am perfectly happy with funding SpaceX in every way possible.

I don't know if those who would argue against funding SpaceX take the "either traditional defense contractors or SpaceX" bait. I think a major argument is that there are better ways to spend the money here on Earth. I.e., it's nobler and more feasible to protect and improve this planet than settle another one. As a former space industry worker, I don't know if I subscribe to that, but that's the best steelmanning I c…

The counter argument to that, is that it is worth while to do things, even if there are other things that are worth while to do. For any single item one can pick out "Why spend on X, when Y has a need", someone else can come along and say "Why spend on Y when Z has a need".

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#124

Post by nikolay »

stetrain wrote: post #74
nikolay wrote: post #58

Elon Musk is no Iron Man. All his companies are built with taxpayer money. When did I sign up to be irradiated by his satellites?!

Those darn radio waves! Hold on I gotta take this call on my iPhone.

Well, I may want to go to a refuge without any electronics.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#125

Post by saberience »

aroch wrote: post #116
Retric wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some defense spending is reasonable, but we could get a lot while limiting things to say 200 - 300 Billion per year. That’s 4-6 times what the UK spends for example and they have 2 aircraft carriers etc.

Calling the British navy a battle ready fleet would be rather a positive attitude. Their submarine and surface ship captains don't know how to navigate, running aground and into other boats. And their aircraft carriers don't even have enough crew/planes and will deploy US Marine Corp units to meet their full complement. It will likely take the UK 15-20 years for the two new Carriers to be at full operating capability…

What are you saying about UK ships not knowing how to navigate? The US navy is far, far worse in that respect, the British navy hasn't had anything near as bad as this happen anytime recently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crys...

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#126

Post by cromwellian »

nikolay wrote: post #58

Elon Musk is no Iron Man. All his companies are built with taxpayer money. When did I sign up to be irradiated by his satellites?!

Tesla was built before tax payer money, they got loans for scaling. They paid them back with interest, the tax payer profited.

SpaceX was also mostly built with Musk's personal fortune, after they developed the Merlin engine, and got the Falcon 1 to orbit, only then did they get contracts from NASA, and they actually saved NASA money, because SpaceX launch costs are significantly lower, ergo, in a way, they also paid the taxpayer back.

Pretty much most large successful companies have been subsidized by tax payer money in some way, if not by direct loans or contracts, then by taking publicly financed research from the military or academia, and commercializing it. Silicon Valley was started by Fairchild Semiconductor whose first contracts were military contracts. Computing started out funded by military. The CIA through In-Q-Tel put $150 million into 90 companies, including Google. Google Maps, acquired from Keyhole, was a CIA funded satellite mapping company.

Let's dispense with the rugged individualism. We all benefit from the government, and we all have a duty to pay it forward.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#127

Post by akarma »

juanbyrge wrote: post #9

If there is any corporate entity I'd happy giving public funding, it would be SpaceX. Their end goal is to settle Mars and potentially other bodies in the solar system. Compared with the absurd amounts of money wasted on defense contractors, I am perfectly happy with funding SpaceX in every way possible.

Also, when a company has such an impactful goal that will, if successful, lead to it having power, it feels important that it's at least somewhat tied to the government.

I'm very capitalistic, but if SpaceX successfully colonizes Mars and builds factories there, I can imagine some frightening scenarios where it has considerable control over the U.S. rather than the U.S. having control over it.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#128

Post by onion2k »

aroch wrote: post #116
Retric wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some defense spending is reasonable, but we could get a lot while limiting things to say 200 - 300 Billion per year. That’s 4-6 times what the UK spends for example and they have 2 aircraft carriers etc.

Calling the British navy a battle ready fleet would be rather a positive attitude. Their submarine and surface ship captains don't know how to navigate, running aground and into other boats. And their aircraft carriers don't even have enough crew/planes and will deploy US Marine Corp units to meet their full complement. It will likely take the UK 15-20 years for the two new Carriers to be at full operating capability…

Their submarine and surface ship captains don't know how to navigate, running aground and into other boats.

The USS Fitzgerald and USS John McCain are US Navy ships that have both had serious collisions recently that lead to loss of life. Ships having accidents is not a particularly good measure of battle readiness.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#129

Post by mabbo »

bumby wrote: post #100
juanbyrge wrote: post #9

If there is any corporate entity I'd happy giving public funding, it would be SpaceX. Their end goal is to settle Mars and potentially other bodies in the solar system. Compared with the absurd amounts of money wasted on defense contractors, I am perfectly happy with funding SpaceX in every way possible.

I don't know if those who would argue against funding SpaceX take the "either traditional defense contractors or SpaceX" bait. I think a major argument is that there are better ways to spend the money here on Earth. I.e., it's nobler and more feasible to protect and improve this planet than settle another one. As a former space industry worker, I don't know if I subscribe to that, but that's the best steelmanning I c…

The problem with the "spend it here" argument is that there is plenty of money to be spent here. Nobody wants to.

How many trillions are spent on war? On corporate subsidies and kickbacks on everything else? How much money is wasted in so many other stupid things? We have a GDP rising at a faster rate than our populations and have for decades. We don't spend the that extra money helping people. We could, but we don't.

And then people look to NASA and SpaceX and say "Look at all that waste".

Meanwhile, this money is going to go to providing low-cost internet all over America (and then the rest of the world). It's going to provide a real, tangible benefit to people at a lower cost than the alternatives.

Re: SpaceX gets $886M from FCC to subsidize Starlink in 35 states

#130

Post by saberience »

Reedx wrote: post #113
notthemessiah wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also lucked out on inheriting fortunes from his parents diamond mines. But, there are lots of people who inherit fortunes and do nothing with it. There are lots of people with drive and intelligence comparable to Elon Musk who don't have the privilege necessary to accomplish anything. Seems we're still a long way away from a meritocracy.

Maybe you're thinking of someone else? “You get really tired of hot dogs and oranges after awhile,” he said. “And of course pasta and a green pepper and a big thing of sauce. And that can go pretty far, too. “So it’s like, ‘Oh, okay, if I can live for a dollar a day then at least from a food cost standpoint, well it’s pretty easy to earn like $30 in a month anyway, so I’ll probably be okay.’ “ This isn’t the only exa…

This is bollocks and the sort of mythology that CEO's also love to create about their "beginnings." Read up on Elon's family background and father, he didn't grow up on a farm or in an orphanage in darkest Congo... he lived a well-off and privileged childhood.
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