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Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

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Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#71

Post by apta »

oh_sigh wrote: post #5

Why would other employees be knowledgeable in the employment relationship between someone and a company? Unless the employees are in the direct management chain, or HR or something, aren't they just parroting what Timnit is claiming?

Exactly the case. Plus, I'd trust someone like Jeff Dean who is accomplished and does not have a history of crying racism and "microagressions" at the slightest beurocratic issue. There are already a couple of posts on reddit from ex-colleagues who explained what it was like working with people like her. People are tired of "woke"ness.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#72

Post by morelisp »

kd913 wrote: post #67
morelisp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My entire reply is about Google (not even specifically Google!), but you're still focusing on Gebru. > I have no idea Why are you commenting then?

Because my original point still stands? In articles discussing Raja, Jim, Linus and their various moves. The first paragraph introduces into great detail about their impacts relating to their contributions to x86, GPUs or the kernel. This individual's highlight appears to be her employment at Google. She is an AI ethics researcher? So what makes her important or an 'industry leader'? Why should I care and why is Goog…

I will try to shorten my first reply.

> Why should I care and why is Google's dirty laundry here in the open?

Because Google is big and powerful and how Google treats its workers matters to everyone in the software industry.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#73

Post by morelisp »

okareaman wrote: post #59

There's was an incident a while back where 2 engineers were joking between themselves about a "big dongle" and the woman seated in the row ahead heard it, turn around, took their picture and posted it online. It ruined everyone's life including hers. I thought we learned from this that airing things publicly is fraught with danger. I imagine there is a time and place for it, but very carefully with intention. https:/…

> It ruined everyone's life including hers.

Source? Last I heard the two men were hired elsewhere fairly quickly. Their names are also hardly ever associated with the story.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#74

Post by nikolay »

Employment is at will on both ends of the contract! Live with it and stop whining! If you don't like your employer and believe they dehumanize you, sue them, or leave them for another more humanizing company! Enough of this BS, please! If she put new conditions on her employment and the employer cannot meet them, then she terminated herself. This is no kindergarten!

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#75

Post by [deleted] »

lsiebert wrote: post #69
kd913 wrote: post #12

It disturbs me how much of a news story this is. This should be handled internally and not aired in public across several media sites. Why should I care about the dirty laundry of FAANG and some random individual?

Do you not care about Google censoring and firing one of the people who are supposed to keep it ethical?

[deleted]

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#76

Post by itisit »

sorenjan wrote: post #45
hartator wrote: post #3

Didn’t she gave an ultimatum? Do this or I resign? And they are like we can’t do this so we consider you terminated?

My uninformed interpretation is that Google wanted her gone and jumped at the first opportunity they got. If they wanted her around I don't think the reasons they've given for letting her go would have been dealbreakers.

Ethics work will inherently raise questions that challenge a company's narrative or image. Clearly both employer and employee had conflicting opinions on how to deal with said work. You can portray any large corporation negatively given the right thesis and research. I have the same hunch that this was a long-running contention between the two sides—one side had enough and fired the other; the other side went public to retaliate. Sure, you can add nuance, but I don't think it's much more complicated than that.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#77

Post by Reedx »

actuator wrote: post #44
prodtorok wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's as innocent as "loves the fame" ... there is a greater theme in our society regarding the influence of public opinion; and how influencers are abusing that in politics/positions of power. The media of course enables it, which I think is a sign of a growing, large scale, rational fragility across society (demand controls their publication, there is a large demand for this type of information)

FB gets criticized a lot in HN but Twitter isn't. IMO Twitter is absolutely the worst platform for things like these because of the prevalent mob culture. It is very easy to organise people using your influence and they can easily hound out any dissenting opinion. I will have to search for them now but I saw people doxxing some of the current Googler's identities if they agreed with the resignation. This is extremely…

That's because Twitter is the platform of journalists.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#78

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

prodtorok wrote: post #34
gerash wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the individual who was let go loves the fame but I see most news website are pretty much looking for some sensational story to run mainly because doing more thorough analysis doesn't pay for itself. That's the problem.

I don't think it's as innocent as "loves the fame" ... there is a greater theme in our society regarding the influence of public opinion; and how influencers are abusing that in politics/positions of power. The media of course enables it, which I think is a sign of a growing, large scale, rational fragility across society (demand controls their publication, there is a large demand for this type of information)

Maybe instead of labeling it "rational fragility" you should take some effort to understand what people are actually saying.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#79

Post by kd913 »

morelisp wrote: post #72
kd913 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because my original point still stands? In articles discussing Raja, Jim, Linus and their various moves. The first paragraph introduces into great detail about their impacts relating to their contributions to x86, GPUs or the kernel. This individual's highlight appears to be her employment at Google. She is an AI ethics researcher? So what makes her important or an 'industry leader'? Why should I care and why is Goog…

I will try to shorten my first reply. > Why should I care and why is Google's dirty laundry here in the open? Because Google is big and powerful and how Google treats its workers matters to everyone in the software industry.

>Because Google is big and powerful and how Google treats its workers matters to everyone in the software industry.

Nonsense, it affects the people at Google.

If it affects everyone in the software industry, feel free to explain precisely how.

Re: Google employees say AI researcher did not resign, despite what exec claims

#80

Post by bnj »

tantalor wrote: post #13
shkkmo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone says "if you don't fix this thing I will look for work elsewhere" that doesn't mean that you can say "I accept your resignation." If you want that person gone immediately, you have to fire them.

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is - This job isn't working out - I don't want to work here anymore - I offer my resignation - I quit

I'm really struggling to understand why you think these are equivalent
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