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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#201

Post by jarjoura »

bgorman wrote: post #80
dekhn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. The Bay Area, specifically Stanford and Berkeley, contributed to the WWII tech research initiative and then afterwards, Terman made Stanford Research Park which led to Silicon Valley.

Without William Shockley moving to the west coast, the "Silicon" part of Silicon Valley would likely be elsewhere in the world.

William Shockley graduated from CalTech, and his connections from CalTech, more specifically Arnold Beckman, funded his new venture in silicon transistors.

It's true that Shockley picked Palo Alto because of his mother, but it would be unfair to not also credit Stanford who had an outsized role in helping solidify the Bay Area as the hub for "Silicon Valley".

Many many many companies tried to move the industry away from California since the 50s, and every time, those companies star players ended up relocating to the bay area.

California's free-wheeling culture permeates at all levels, from investors all the way down to the individual contributors. It just wasn't an accident that Silicon Valley happened the way it did.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#202

Post by scottlocklin »

gonehome wrote: post #159
camjohnson26 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a ridiculous take. There’s a lot of technical talent trapped in the Bay Area and I welcome it in my region. Treating every resident as if they agree with the repressive SF politics is over generalizing. And who’s full? The main thing the flyover states need is more people.

The irony is it's the 'fuck off we're full' people that have made CA policy shitty. It's the NIMBY anti-change response to policy. The people that want a strong economy, incentivize building housing, and adapting lead to positive non-zero-sum outcomes. The people that say "fuck off we're full" block any policy and create perverse incentives that create a dysfunctional mess. This is ignoring the selection bias that th…

>Largely I think comments....

Largely I think you're projecting.

The reason California is such absolute shit to live in: people who live in California vote for the policies it has. You can't blame anyone else. I left to get away from you people, and would dearly like for you all to stay in the beautiful little paradise you have created. Bringing California problems, whether it be zoning laws, riots, real estate prices, unbreathable air due to foolish politically driven forestry management, water shortages, tent cities, traffic jams, electrical blackouts, people shitting in the streets or whatever charming advancements you may come up with next to Austin, Montana, Kuala Lumpur or Des Moines: you people should be treated as the pariahs you are.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#203

Post by TuringNYC »

munaf wrote: post #116
TuringNYC wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Yeah, I've had some friends leave (to CO and DC), but I'm skeptical of companies and VCs leaving. >> I have had older friends leave to have a family. They went to Santa Cruz, Seattle, Denver, DC, and Austin. It's a shame. The ones that stayed either are very rich where a $5M house is not an issue, or they still live with three roommates and rent without kids. Just wait until they look for interesting jobs and get…

Exactly. An anecdote: I got an offer to leave my mid-level FAANG job to return to the Midwest for a VP role at a 200+ person company. The compensation was about 35% of my total comp, and it was maybe one of 3 companies in the area I would consider working for. Not to mention going back to cold winters, McMansions, and chain restaurants. I don't think people fully appreciate the value of unenforceable non-competes + m…

Agreed. I think it was all OK when I was single. But the appetite to re-locate a family every 2-3 years with a job change (or employer disappearing) (changing friends, school districts, continuity) is a tall order in my humble opinion.

There is an old Russian saying about how every time you move it is like a fire happened (because you lose things.)

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#204

Post by Xcelerate »

It will be interesting to see what happens. I work at one of FANG and recently relocated to Asheville from the Bay Area (sooner than I expected; we have a newborn and wildfire smoke was getting pretty bad). Compensation adjustment is surprisingly less than I would have expected, although it's hard to say if this trend will hold over the next decade or not.

Our rent is 1/4 of what it was in the Bay Area for one more bedroom now. I do miss California a lot though; the weather, food, and culture are very hard to beat (although Asheville isn't too bad in this regard, but at perhaps 1/20 of the scale). Ironically, with the amount that I am able to save from not living there anymore, I plan to save up and buy a house somewhere in the Bay Area in 15-20 years. But this is assuming my income will remain at Silicon Valley levels. If companies change their mind about embracing remote work, it will drop quite a bit since we are definitely not moving back any time soon. Personally, I feel that I am more productive working remotely than in person, but I do miss all of the office perks.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#205

Post by renewiltord »

nitrogen wrote: post #161
renewiltord wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's not a universal thing¹ but the short version is that one of my friends was told how he was "one of the good guys" and not the kind of immigrant they hate. And another was in sales in industrial manufacturing and there was a lot of misogyny and low-grade racism there. They're in WA now so and much happier. ¹ the "isn't happening to me" thing is sort of analogous to "works on my machine". Because of the rang…

The immigration issue is more complex than that. I met a guy a long time ago who immigrated illegally, but eventually decided to go legit. He built a fortune in the shipping pallet business, and complained loudly about unfair competition from illegal immigration because those companies could pay sub-living wages and skip out on safety and workers' comp insurance. It's fine to prefer living in one culture over another…

Certainly. I did not mean to imply a global ordering of places to live. I interpreted the original question "what practically speaking is so intolerable about living there or your neighbors?" as "what ... is so intolerable [for someone who doesn't wish to live there] ...". It is perfectly reasonable that you find it enjoyable to live there and I find it intolerable. I interpreted the question as "why do you find it intolerable" not "why should I find it intolerable" since the latter is harder to answer - I don't know your desire vector and/or moral foundations.

And to be clear, I did not mean illegal immigration. I meant legal immigration.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#206

Post by ibarea23 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #89
bigyikes wrote: post #13

As it happens, tomorrow I’m putting in my 30-day notice to terminate my lease and leave the Bay. (And I’m paying 2 additional months rent in fees to do so) Not being tied to the office fundamentally changes the calculus of choosing where to live. There just aren’t good reasons to live here anymore for so many of us. Even if you enjoy the area, chances are you can get a better deal by moving just a bit further away. A…

>> and still come out ahead financially. Ya. Earning a SF wage but living elsewhere is great. But there is a flip side to this coin. As employees realize they can work from home, employers also realize they can have employees work from home. They will soon realize they don't need to pay SF wages. Those who convert their in-office jobs into work-from-home are a covid oddity. Those who will be hired in the future on th…

It will just continue to bifurcate more. Highly skilled people will still kill. People that mostly benefitted from being in the Bay are fucked. High-end positions outside the Bay pay Bay salaries.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#207

Post by verisimilidude »

godot wrote: post #63
ghaff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot to like about many areas of California. Which ones may depend on your weather, cultural, etc. preferences. But Silicon Valley proper I find not particularly appealing; housing costs are only part of the reason. (SF itself has well-documented pluses and minuses.) I don't live or work in CA/SV. But if I were in SV but no longer needed to commute, I might well stay in CA but I'd probably move somewhere out…

I did this and completely agree. I lived in the bay area since high school, more than two decades ago. Last year I finally moved away from it for good. Not far, just to the Greater Sacramento area. (I've been working remotely for a couple years, well before COVID) Qualify of life improvement is huge. Weather and cultural are important reasons for me to stay in California (plus family and friends), and I still get tha…

I moved to Sacramento for all the same reasons, and I also love it here. I remember a lot of people talked down on Sac when I lived in the Bay. It feels like I’ve discovered a secret by moving here.

EDIT: Here are a few more things to like about Sacramento.

There seems to be a large population of highly educated ex-military types concentrated here. It’s been an unexpected source of high quality hires. I never saw these people in the Bay.

I’m in an international marriage. We were worried we wouldn’t be able to find our people upon moving here. That hasn’t been a problem at all. Fellow expats are everywhere. It’s a fairly diverse area.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#208

Post by camjohnson26 »

scottlocklin wrote: post #202
gonehome wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is it's the 'fuck off we're full' people that have made CA policy shitty. It's the NIMBY anti-change response to policy. The people that want a strong economy, incentivize building housing, and adapting lead to positive non-zero-sum outcomes. The people that say "fuck off we're full" block any policy and create perverse incentives that create a dysfunctional mess. This is ignoring the selection bias that th…

>Largely I think comments.... Largely I think you're projecting. The reason California is such absolute shit to live in: people who live in California vote for the policies it has. You can't blame anyone else. I left to get away from you people, and would dearly like for you all to stay in the beautiful little paradise you have created. Bringing California problems, whether it be zoning laws, riots, real estate price…

I think you just proved their point.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#209

Post by jeffreyrogers »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #112
scottlocklin wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always answer: fuck off; we're full. California, particularly Bay Area California is so ridiculously dysfunctional, the last thing any region needs is their refugees, who will bring with them the problems they're fleeing. Austin for example. Used to be a great place.

That’s a ridiculous take. There’s a lot of technical talent trapped in the Bay Area and I welcome it in my region. Treating every resident as if they agree with the repressive SF politics is over generalizing. And who’s full? The main thing the flyover states need is more people.

There does seem to be a strong correlation between large influx of former California residents and increasing social problems.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#210

Post by clairity »

beambot wrote: post #194
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one disputes that those events you cite happened. However, those events were essentially random, not caused by local efforts to stimulate industry. Because of them, the area was blessed/cursed with an excess of productivity that it didn't know how to cause. Now it's just coasting downhill, unable to maintain the altitude that it once had because it never knew how to (was never possible to?) build that altitude wit…

They were most certainly caused by local efforts in the 1950s. The reason the Silicon revolution happened in Silicon Valley had everything to do with Cold War radar systems. I suggest watching Steve Blank's Secret History of Silicon Valley to get a better historical perspective: https://steveblank.com/secret-history/

the cold war and american science by stuart leslie is a good accounting of the overall history from the early 20th century to the 80s: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/212074.The_Cold_War_and_...
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