Live data from Hacker News

Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

businessinsider.com

171–180 of 1001 posts

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#171
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. The Bay Area, specifically Stanford and Berkeley, contributed to the WWII tech research initiative and then afterwards, Terman made Stanford Research Park which led to Silicon Valley.

No one disputes that those events you cite happened. However, those events were essentially random, not caused by local efforts to stimulate industry. Because of them, the area was blessed/cursed with an excess of productivity that it didn't know how to cause. Now it's just coasting downhill, unable to maintain the altitude that it once had because it never knew how to (was never possible to?) build that altitude wit…

Stanford Research Park was a joint venture between Stanford and the city of palo alto. It was highly non-random.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#172

As it happens, tomorrow I’m putting in my 30-day notice to terminate my lease and leave the Bay. (And I’m paying 2 additional months rent in fees to do so) Not being tied to the office fundamentally changes the calculus of choosing where to live. There just aren’t good reasons to live here anymore for so many of us. Even if you enjoy the area, chances are you can get a better deal by moving just a bit further away. A…

>> and still come out ahead financially. Ya. Earning a SF wage but living elsewhere is great. But there is a flip side to this coin. As employees realize they can work from home, employers also realize they can have employees work from home. They will soon realize they don't need to pay SF wages. Those who convert their in-office jobs into work-from-home are a covid oddity. Those who will be hired in the future on th…

As an employer I am looking for an expert who does excellent work. I don't care where he is located and I am willing to pay good money for good work. Experts are a rare resource which will always be expensive no matter where they are located. My 2 ct.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#173
post #114
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. The Bay Area, specifically Stanford and Berkeley, contributed to the WWII tech research initiative and then afterwards, Terman made Stanford Research Park which led to Silicon Valley.

Yeah, I thought it was somewhat due to Stanford's handling of IP. The argument I heard was that if you're researching at Stanford and make a productizable discovery you can spin off a company no strings. I was at Cornell when I heard this, where any company built off on-campus research had to sign over 20% of the company up front. Makes those initial pitches to VC that much harder.

I don't think that's the case. I've anecdotally heard that Stanford does take some (possibly small) amount of equity. From the first paragraph of Stanford's patent policy[0]:

> All potentially patentable inventions conceived or first reduced to practice in whole or in part by members of the faculty or staff (including student employees) of the University in the course of their University responsibilities or with more than incidental use of University resources, shall be disclosed on a timely basis to the University. Title to such inventions shall be assigned to the University, regardless of the source of funding, if any.

For an example of an institution with the kind of IP policy you're describing, the University of Waterloo in Canada has a policy[1] that by default assigns IP to creators rather than the institution:

> Except as stipulated below, it is University policy that ownership of rights in IP created in the course of teaching and research activities belong to the creator(s).

[0]: https://doresearch.stanford.edu/policies/research-policy-han... [1]: https://uwaterloo.ca/secretariat/policies-procedures-guideli...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#174
post #40

It's notable that a lot of people are moving, but I'd wait until at least early 2022 to make judgements about lasting impacts on SV. WFH might not stick widely, and some firms will pick a hybrid model (i.e. partial WFH) over going fully remote. Not to mention that few places can match all the benefits of SV, i.e. unenforceable non-competes, fantastic weather and surroundings, an educated and diverse population, cultu…

I lived in SV for a decade and worked in SF for most of that.

> WFH might not stick widely

If the vast majority of workers demand it, then I don't think employers will have a choice here. Leaving now is a vote with your feet.

> unenforceable non-competes

Very few of my peers have ever cared about this in practice. I don't think this is remotely a major benefit compared to e.g. state taxes.

> fantastic weather and surroundings

The surroundings, I'll give you, but the weather is "fantastic" in a small number of communities only. SF weather is far from fantastic. I don't miss it. Sunnyvale or RWC, on the other hand... But still. The weather is boring.

What I don't miss are the fires and smoke-filled skies, and the drought.

> an educated and diverse population

The "native bay area" population? Or the migrants and immigrants? The vast, vast majority of people I worked with over the years were from elsewhere. We used to joke that it was rare to hear someone was born in the Bay Area. There's not much weighing people from elsewhere down preventing then from leaving, and there is less and less weight each passing month this year.

> cultural activities

I actually cannot think of anything unique to the Bay here...

> very high compensation

True, but I know plenty of people who have moved to Seattle and New York who make just as much. And I know of several fully remote (pre-pandemic) workers who are making 90% of what they would earn in the Bay Area -- I know, this isn't common, but it's possible.

Honestly, SV has done this to themselves. NIMBYism, insane housing, terrible transit, high taxes. I have no doubt SV will recover, but the rest of the world will prosper at the valley's expense.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#175
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. The Bay Area, specifically Stanford and Berkeley, contributed to the WWII tech research initiative and then afterwards, Terman made Stanford Research Park which led to Silicon Valley.

Lots of places contributed to WWII research initiatives. Why not Chicago, where the first nuclear reactor was built? Or Boston, with MIT whose research labs churned out fire control systems and computers? Or Los Angeles, with its defense powerhouses and UCLA/Cal-Tech? Or Detroit? Or anywhere else in the US with given the wartime mobilization? Because Shockley moved here. Fairchild was founded here, and the Fairchildr…

MIT had a similar revolution centered around Route 128.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#176
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I like the "idea" of four seasons. But after living in socal, I discovered I really only need a few days a year of the cold wintery weather. And then I'm over it. I get that from travel. Not to mention how summers are so much hotter in the Midwest and south. Mid 70s and sunny is hard to beat. It's like an eternal spring.

There is a place where you can have seasons, yet they are mild. And there is a reasonable cost of living, if you so choose. And it has public transportation, which is not ideal but better that many other US cities. And it has a huge number of software jobs, an educated populace, and culture. Washington, DC

Isn't D.C. really humid? It was built on a swamp, after all.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#177
post #74

The major obstacle to living in SV is the insane cost of homeownership that puts the (pretty commonplace) aspiration of living in one's own home with a nice yard out of reach of all but the richest (even being in the top 5% of incomes in the nation is no guarantee of being able to own a house in Palo Alto, for example.) With the recent passing of Prop 19, things get even worse: people who are looking to inherit homes…

The cost of homeownership is a huge factor for me. When I started working in 2014, I figured I would need to save around $150k for a down payment because the median home price in Santa Clara county was around $800k. Now the median price is around $1.4M [1], so I'd need around $250k. The growth in home prices has roughly matched my ability to save for a home, so almost seven years later I'm not any closer than I was i…

Hah, I was in your exact same situation a couple of years ago and when my kid was born, I decided to leave Santa Clara for good. I have not regretted the decision yet. Not only was I able to afford a decent home, I am happy that I wont have to pay an insane mortgage for rest of my life. What I definitely miss about SFBA is the weather and diversity of good food.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#178
post #33

Tech in SFBA reminds me of the Resource curse ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse ). SFBA did nothing special to attract the wealth of technology companies, they effectively got lucky with Shockley/Fairchild/Traitorous 8 and the boom in technology that followed. It seems the local gov't have squandered an opportunity to truly capitalize on the gift they were given, and perhaps even done their best to jeopa…

I think there was an element of hippy culture mixed in there that contributed to success from openness and willingness to experiment on paths not directly connected to profit.

Also, I hardly think the opportunity was squandered - it's paid off for a long run. I do think there are challenges ahead for the model to continue to succeed faster than other areas.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#179
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a ridiculous take. There’s a lot of technical talent trapped in the Bay Area and I welcome it in my region. Treating every resident as if they agree with the repressive SF politics is over generalizing. And who’s full? The main thing the flyover states need is more people.

I don't think most people leaving the bay area are headed to some remote cabin in Montana or some sleepy town in the midwest - they're just moving to cheaper (comparatively) cities. Anyone pulling up roots with a bay area salary or a home in CA is going to have a huge cash advantage against anyone in the local market just about wherever they move. On a personal note, it's been tons of fun competing with the multiple…

I am heading to a remote cabin (well, farm actually) in Montana. Just waiting for Starlink to go GA. I'm currently in the Seattle area though.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#180
post #40

It's notable that a lot of people are moving, but I'd wait until at least early 2022 to make judgements about lasting impacts on SV. WFH might not stick widely, and some firms will pick a hybrid model (i.e. partial WFH) over going fully remote. Not to mention that few places can match all the benefits of SV, i.e. unenforceable non-competes, fantastic weather and surroundings, an educated and diverse population, cultu…

Wfh will not stick. Managers hate it. If you are really talented you can work anywhere for whatever price you want, however most people are not like that and can only really function meeting often in person.

>"Managers hate it"

Who ever cares what managers think. It is the owners who matter as they're the ones paying bills.

>"however most people are not like that and can only really function meeting often in person"

Well, when your ability to make a living is at stake your ability to function independent of location might suddenly improve.

Post reply on HN