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Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

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Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#81

Cool! Some thoughts from a former Twitch engineer: - Probably the hardest part of running these things is managing outbound bandwidth costs. You'll need to either limit inbound bitrate or transcode video down to a manageable rate, or else you'll quickly spend a lot of money on shipping 4k video for people. - Right now, your nginx hosts both do ingest and playback, if I understand it right. You might want to separate…

FWIW, the OP repo uses a Terraform config to deploy the server on a 4GBRAM server on DigitalOcean.[1] Which costs $20/mon and has 4TB/mon bandwidth allowance.[2]

To give a sense of what a 4TB bandwidth could cover: 320 people watching a 3hr stream at 1080p or 70mb per minute.

[1] https://github.com/benwilber/boltstream/blob/master/terrafor... [2] https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tools/bandwidth?activ...

Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#82
post #14

Have you performed any load testing or measured performance and scalability?

Wouldn't it be mostly IO bound? A 10 Mbit/s stream would equal to 100 viewers on a 1Gbit connection, which you can probably handle with even a 1-2 core VPS. The primary consideration would be your transit/server provider and how well peered they are in relation to your viewers.

If you're chucking it out as you get it aye, but chances are you're going to need to do a bit of transcoding aren't you?

Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#83
post #48

Cool! Some thoughts from a former Twitch engineer: - Probably the hardest part of running these things is managing outbound bandwidth costs. You'll need to either limit inbound bitrate or transcode video down to a manageable rate, or else you'll quickly spend a lot of money on shipping 4k video for people. - Right now, your nginx hosts both do ingest and playback, if I understand it right. You might want to separate…

Having worked with AWS IVS, which is using the same infrastructure design as Twitch (or the other way around), it only accepts RTMP (well RTMPS to be fair) as an input. To me it would seem that the industry is going the opposite way, and doubling down on RTMP. An RTMP connector is planned on the Chime SDK as well (a framework & infrastructure based on Chime to create your own custom meetings), to be able to stream th…

How do you handle hevc/h265 and resolutions above 4K?

It’s not in the rtmp spec, so not supported by either ffmpeg or gstreamer. But chinese companies ship cameras that hack it and run rtmp for it anyway, leading users to peskering me about our sw being broken :/

Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#84

Sorry, but it is baby solution please compare with https://github.com/fastogt/fastocloud and on Github limited version. Good luck.

Your pricing options need an accountant to decode them. If they were simpler I'd be um-ing and ah-ing over testing it out right now rather than posting this comment

Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#87
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fourth, streaming platforms are incredibly expensive to create, maintain, and promote. They will not be profitable for a long, long time, on top of requiring mountains of cash to start. I agree with that and unless you have founders who possess the required expertise + motivation, it will be expensive. > And finally, users "get used" to a specific platform, e.g. Twitch chat, and it's difficult to break these emotio…

> Yes and no, I think if you build a quality product, people will try it, and if it works and is delightful, they'll come back. Look at TikTok. TikTok is different because you can work on maintaining an audience on something like Instagram and also at the same time try to build an audience on TikTok, even if their social networks are different. If you are in a contract with Twitch, you cannot stream anywhere else. Yo…

> If you are in a contract with Twitch

Interesting, so are you saying that to be profitable on Twitch you have to be under contract? I'm not familiar with how that works really, thanks for the commentary. I assumed that most creators/streamers are simply regular users who are streaming on the platform w/o legal contracts etc.

What advice would you give to someone building a new streaming platform? focus on building the conversation piece first?

Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#88
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes and no, I think if you build a quality product, people will try it, and if it works and is delightful, they'll come back. Look at TikTok. TikTok is different because you can work on maintaining an audience on something like Instagram and also at the same time try to build an audience on TikTok, even if their social networks are different. If you are in a contract with Twitch, you cannot stream anywhere else. Yo…

> If you are in a contract with Twitch Interesting, so are you saying that to be profitable on Twitch you have to be under contract? I'm not familiar with how that works really, thanks for the commentary. I assumed that most creators/streamers are simply regular users who are streaming on the platform w/o legal contracts etc. What advice would you give to someone building a new streaming platform? focus on building t…

There are Twitch affiliates and Twitch partners. Twitch partners are under contract, although you can still make decent money as an affiliate. Partnered streamers are the ones that have more restrictions as to where they can stream. Most of the streamers making the biggest amount of money are going to be partnered and attached to Twitch.

I don't have a lot of advice on a new streaming platform. As a user, I like usernames, emotes, the ability to gift subscriptions, and no mid-roll ads. Any streaming platform that wants to take off also needs to have a built-in way to create a shareable "clip" from a live stream.

Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#89

Cool! Some thoughts from a former Twitch engineer: - Probably the hardest part of running these things is managing outbound bandwidth costs. You'll need to either limit inbound bitrate or transcode video down to a manageable rate, or else you'll quickly spend a lot of money on shipping 4k video for people. - Right now, your nginx hosts both do ingest and playback, if I understand it right. You might want to separate…

"Please don't keep using RTMP."

So, this has been talked about a bunch already, but I'm involved in a small streaming group that occasionally puts on (online, not in person) marathons and we've been looking for something to use that's better than rtmp for a while for ingest from participants and we really haven't found anything good. At least nothing that's viable to set up with open source software of your own.

We just piloted SRT (having about 35 different streamers stream to us with it from OBS into srt-live-server, then into OBS with a media source), which has been mentioned a bunch here, and it's been a mixed bag and I don't know if we'll stick with it.

The big pro is that it doesn't fall behind like the usual RTMP chain (OBS->nginx-rtmp-flv->OBS media source or web source with flvjs) tends to when connection quality degrades.

I don't think this is necessarily an inherent characteristic of rtmp really, but the open software in this chain tends to just grow bigger and bigger buffers when the connection hitches, leading to progressively worse latency you have to 'fix' by resetting the stream. Twitch and other big ingesters seem to avoid this somehow, and I suspect ingesting directly into HLS or similar avoids it, but low latency HLS is still essentially unavailable in open source packaging so is not viable for our use.

On the downside, though, SRT requires somewhat manual tweaking of latency and buffering parameters to work properly and our experience has been that, while the stream never falls behind, hitches outside the configured parameters produce a particularly ghastly kind of artifacting we've called "streakies" where entire segments of the feed will just turn weird bands of colours. It's possible this is actually a problem in the software, as the bits needed to put this together (particular srt-live-server) seem pretty immature yet.

It seems like the future for this kind of use case is likely to wind up being webrtc, but as of now getting webrtc to play nice with OBS is kind of painful, usually just involving using external software that captures a popped out preview display from OBS. It's a little less than ideal. I think it'll be our next thing to try though, and obs.ninja looks kind of promising as a platform to help with doing it.

Re: Show HN: Boltstream – Self-hosted full end-to-end live video streaming platform

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please don't keep using RTMP. ... You might consider accepting an alternative modern protocol. What would you recommend as an alternative modern protocol to RTMP for shipping video between a broadcast endpoint and transcoding/distribution infra?

Well, to be fair, there isn't a clear winner. Maybe SRT, but it doesn't have much platform support itself, and its spec is pretty strange. I get weird Adobe flashbacks about it, since it seems so heavily pushed by Haivision, and it's really made for a different use case - it's made for big broadcasters like ESPN and TV networks, not for web startups. The current motion seems to be towards hacking WebRTC to accommodat…

So it’s probably fine to stick with RTMP then?
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