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The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

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Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#281

Post by overgard »

jacobolus wrote: post #162
overgard wrote: post #125

I think something that gets lost in the concern about COVID is how many addicts and people struggling with mental health are being killed indirectly by these quarantines. I don't have an easy answer of course, it's a serious virus, but while for a normal person these shutdowns are depressing, for addicts these shutdowns can be indirect death sentences. I really think that needs to get factored into these decisions.

The virus itself is doing far more to damage mental health than stay-at-home orders ever will. Around the world, we’re talking about millions of grieving people who have lost parents, siblings, spouses, children, friends, coworkers, .... Millions more people who struggled to stay breathing and may now suffer severe long-term (or maybe permanent) symptoms. Health care workers around the world who will have PTSD from h…

I don't think the grief of losing someone to the virus is any greater or less than losing someone to an overdose or suicide. A death is a death and always tragic. I'm sure the mother grieving her sons suicide is just as sad as the person grieving the death of an elderly parent. (Of course in reality people care less about addiction deaths because many still mistakenly see it as a moral failing rather than a disease). The focus needs to be on controlling the disease while also limiting the collateral damage as much as possible. Don't forget: most of us are likely to get this disease at some point anyway, even with a vaccine it will mutate. The important point has always been to slow the spread. Preventing it completely is near impossible without very extreme measures.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#282

Post by ashtonkem »

watwut wrote: post #219
ashtonkem wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> put way too much focus (imho) on various nights and parties which don't really relate to entrepreneurship or business. “Work hard, party hard” is an extremely common aspect of startup culture. I personally suspect that startups tend to draw in risk takers, which explains the prevalence of over-drinking in many (but not all) startups.

How is drinking risk taking? I was in groups that where drinking was super normalized and never ever perceived it to be dangerous. Plus, anxious fearful people do drink too, it makes them feel better. I mean, I avoided drinking near to some specific individuals (I am woman), but I perceived those individuals to be unsafe. Drinking itself did not constituted risk taking for me.

Even in cultures where regular drinking is normalized, it’s typical understood that there’s a difference between having drinks and binge drinking. “Work hard, party hard” heavily implies the latter, as it’s indicating that the person doing it will party more than is socially normal, and is proud of that.

Also, I’m an American, and I’m largely commenting on both American culture and American startup culture; both of which I’ve participated in. My observations about this are relevant for Zappos, a startup based out of Las Vegas, but might not be relevant for say EPAM in Minsk.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#283

Post by CydeWeys »

tempsy wrote: post #149
CydeWeys wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You buy shoes through amazon.com now (with fulfillment by Zappos). That's where all the development has gone. I get the feeling zappos.com is a dead end.

Yeah that makes sense, but then my question is why did Hsieh stay as CEO for that long in what was basically a dead end company within Amazon? It doesn’t seem like that is something someone like Hsieh would ever want to do, and yet he stayed there for a decade post acquisition.

It actually sounds like the perfect position for him. He had an impressive-sounding title of CEO of Zappos without ever actually having to do much; it was a sinecure that let him focus most of his energy on the stuff he cared more about towards the end of his life, like his Vegas project, partying, and drugs.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#284

Post by okareaman »

rsync wrote: post #204
okareaman wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could have looked for tanks to save money, but I surely would have died that way. I could control intake with cartridges because the limiting factor was that you had to keep cracking them. A case of 600 whippets one after another would last about 5 hours, so 2 a minute. I've heard too many stories of people dying with tanks.

Forgive me ... I am completely naive regarding this subject but find these descriptions both fascinating and confusing... Do I understand: if you're on a whippet bender you have to do a thing every 30 seconds ? It seems like that would interrupt and greatly diminish whatever pleasurable effects the substance was giving you ... in fact, it sounds somewhat stressful ...

Cracking whippets is like popping bubble wrap. It's a pleasant repetitive motion that becomes part of automatic muscle memory after a while. It becomes a meditation, like praying the rosary.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#285

Post by [deleted] »

watwut wrote: post #260
solaceb wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your claim? Drinking is normal in your culture —> drinking is not risky in your culture ? This is patently false; drinking carries risks in any context, perhaps even moreso in environments which fail to recognize its potential for harm

My claim is that in culture where drinking is normalized, people dont perceive drinking risky. Consequently, drinking as activity is not all that much biased toward "risk takers". It does not really matter how much risk it "objectively" puts you through. It attracts risk takers only if people consider it risky.

[deleted]

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#286

Post by nxmnxm99 »

abootstrapper wrote: post #139
nxmnxm99 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This recurrent story where extremely intelligent people are battling mental health issues and cannot speak out because the stigma behind this issue is too damaging is why we need to normalize the discourse around mental health if we want to avoid this type of tragedies. Where exactly is the "stigma" of mental health in tech nowadays? We're blasted day and night to the point where apparently every other person is "b…

I mean, given the demands of modern society, I wouldn’t be surprised if every other person was honestly battling some kind of mental health issues at some point. I mean hell, it’s tough enough being sentient and dealing with mortality, throw in social issues, politics, propaganda, conspiracies, lack of health care, lack of social safety nets, caring for dependents, dating, paying bills, social media, “Instagram cultu…

You know where you don't see every other person crying about mental health on their iPhone? The entire developing world.

This isn't a mental health crisis. Westerners are just babies.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#287

Post by tomhoward »

da39a3ee wrote: post #16
da39a3ee wrote: post #13

https://archive.is/SkjZg

Um, downvotes? Are you saying that that link is not to the full contents of the article? Or are you saying that you think it is bad to give people access to data? Or are you saying that one should not circumvent the paywall of the WSJ because it is stealing?

What you did is fine and recommended by dang. Downvotes may be from people not knowing about HN's convention on this, but you're in the right.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#288

Post by coryfklein »

rorykoehler wrote: post #209
unishark wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they meant binge drinking. In many cultures, drinking is fine throughout the day, and it does not imply continuing until drunk.

What's the point in drinking any alcohol at all unless you want to achieve some level of impairment?

This comment belies a misunderstanding of how alcohol affects the body - that it merely creates a gradient from "not impaired" to "impaired".

Clearly there is more to alcohol than just impairment. Alcohol is both a stimulant and a sedative. It's widely recognized as a social lubricant. All of these properties, in moderation, can be beneficial to many kinds of work.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#289

Post by deeviant »

overgard wrote: post #125

I think something that gets lost in the concern about COVID is how many addicts and people struggling with mental health are being killed indirectly by these quarantines. I don't have an easy answer of course, it's a serious virus, but while for a normal person these shutdowns are depressing, for addicts these shutdowns can be indirect death sentences. I really think that needs to get factored into these decisions.

> I think something that gets lost...

It's really not lost at all. Most people know about the secondary effects of the lockdown. Loss of jobs, loss of schooling, mental health effects. It's all front and center.

The math is simple. Without lockdowns, millions die, so we lockdown to some degree.

It's not that government officials are enacting lockdowns in a callous disregard of their negative effects, we simply have no other sane choice.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#290

Post by rorykoehler »

542354234235 wrote: post #274
rorykoehler wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warming feeling is mild intoxication?

No. Intoxication is generally considered to be mental impairment or a change of mental state, like mood, inhibition, etc. The warming feeling you get from alcohol is due to alcohol dilating blood vessels, moving more warm blood to your extremities and skin. It is a real physical reaction, not a mental perception. So while you might also be intoxicated, the warm feeling is not intoxication per se.

If it’s giving you a physical reaction then it’s also going to give you a mental one. They go hand in hand
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