All it might take is for customers to say: "Okay, I don't need it for Christmas, I can wait until March, or maybe even June, for a real good game".
Not very realistic, unfortunately.
Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
101–110 of 132 posts
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#102All it might take is for customers to say: "Okay, I don't need it for Christmas, I can wait until March, or maybe even June, for a real good game". Not very realistic, unfortunately.
Why? What other option do customers have than to accept the delay and just buy the game later? Games are being delayed all the time, it's not like everybody suddenly loses interest in a game they would like to play and are waiting for once it fails to arrive at its initial release date.
Also, it's not an indie studio that needs sales money right now to keep existing. They can easily afford much bigger delays. They prefer to put their employees at severe health risk instead so they can maximize profits.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#103Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Once with a 6 months crunch, second time closer to 10 months of 14 hour days. That was enough for me to swear off the entire industry despite working towards it for most of my younger life. Saw it what it did to our team, destroyed multiple relationships, the product suffered for it and overall both titles we're a disaster. It cuts in more than one way, aside from some really r…
Sorry for derailing the discussion a little bit.
Is this everyone including Graphics designers? Not just developers?
Why are the economics of Gaming so not aligned? The cost of making Games are going up YoY. Revenue and Profits seems to be up too. We have better middleware like Unreal than ever before, and yet the cost keep going up but not salary.
And it seems Nintendo doesn't have any of these problem.
Someone please explain to me like I am five.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#104Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Once with a 6 months crunch, second time closer to 10 months of 14 hour days. That was enough for me to swear off the entire industry despite working towards it for most of my younger life. Saw it what it did to our team, destroyed multiple relationships, the product suffered for it and overall both titles we're a disaster. It cuts in more than one way, aside from some really r…
Sorry for derailing the discussion a little bit. Is this everyone including Graphics designers? Not just developers? Why are the economics of Gaming so not aligned? The cost of making Games are going up YoY. Revenue and Profits seems to be up too. We have better middleware like Unreal than ever before, and yet the cost keep going up but not salary. And it seems Nintendo doesn't have any of these problem. Someone plea…
Very large of supply of young people who really want to work in games as a thing in of itself. As opposed to the standard software industry where, at least to my experience, most people spend quite some time thinking about the money they'll make.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#105> While long hours would be permitted for those interested in working them, crunch would not be made “mandatory.” Yeah, I'm sure that works well. How can you compete with those that do work long hours when it comes time for performance reviews? The fear of losing your job is very real and I'm sure that creates a culture where in effect everyone is working long hours, no matter what the CD Projekt co-founder says.
Losing your game dev job is probably the best thing that could happen to you financially. It is a strange industry
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#106> While long hours would be permitted for those interested in working them, crunch would not be made “mandatory.” Yeah, I'm sure that works well. How can you compete with those that do work long hours when it comes time for performance reviews? The fear of losing your job is very real and I'm sure that creates a culture where in effect everyone is working long hours, no matter what the CD Projekt co-founder says.
One has to ask “do I like my role and what I’m paid when working 40h weeks?”
I’m happy with my comp and my role. I don’t need a raise or promotion. I can work at this job until 70 with pay rises corresponding to inflation.
Given that, I’m fine if people work 70h weeks all around me. I’m also confident my work output will rival that of the crunchers, because after even just a few weeks it’s not effective.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#107Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Once with a 6 months crunch, second time closer to 10 months of 14 hour days. That was enough for me to swear off the entire industry despite working towards it for most of my younger life. Saw it what it did to our team, destroyed multiple relationships, the product suffered for it and overall both titles we're a disaster. It cuts in more than one way, aside from some really r…
Sorry for derailing the discussion a little bit. Is this everyone including Graphics designers? Not just developers? Why are the economics of Gaming so not aligned? The cost of making Games are going up YoY. Revenue and Profits seems to be up too. We have better middleware like Unreal than ever before, and yet the cost keep going up but not salary. And it seems Nintendo doesn't have any of these problem. Someone plea…
Nintendo is also a very closed company with strongly and carefully regulated PR.
We don't really know a lot about their process, but considering a lot of their games are made in Japan and what has been said in the past, there is guaranteed to be crunch there as well. People sleeping in their offices for days on end before shipping a game, etc.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not like every fan was acting like that. "We've received death threats" has become a tool to try and change the topic from whatever made people upset.
That not everybody does it doesn't make it any more acceptable, or makes rightfully complaining about it any more unacceptable.
Nobody said it was right, but it still derails from discussion by offering essentially an insignificant datapoint.
At this point on the internet, if the topic touches more than 100,000 people and its controversial. You can probably find a few truly heinous comments.
And giving them attention, is kind of what they are after.
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe a software developers’ union. Big projects like this use a lot of third party tooling; imagine if a decent percentage of those said “we won’t license this to you unless you’re a union shop” or something like that. And said union would enforce humane working conditions.
Us software developers are too smart for organised labour. And why would companies like Epic restrict their revenues like that? Epic too sees financial gain from their developers working excessive (potentially unpaid) overtime, no doubt. Unions are necessarily devised and lead by workers, not beneficent corps.
We don't need a union we need a fucking bar. If you pass a bar exam, you get to charge 350 eur/h like my lawyer. And if you do questionable shit you could be disbarred
Re: Cyberpunk 2077 has involved months of crunch, despite past promises
#110On a great day I can do about 6 hours of highly concentrated programming work. Most days is probably closer to 4 hours.
If I'm tired, I will definitely not reach the 6 hours.
So I really wonder who in their fucking mind would think that you can pull off 12 hour workdays and be more productive? That is just pure insanity. I think it's time to stop lying to ourselves on how many hours we are actually productive in the 'work hours' that we do.