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The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

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Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#211

Post by twblalock »

mlyle wrote: post #189

The article points to ordinary eccentricities a whole bunch for sensationalism. E.g. the 26 day alphabet diet mentioned here sounds interesting. Think of all the new things you'd try to fill out days where you don't know many foods that start with that letter. And the days that are mostly fasting (e.g. Z) aren't too common. Plenty of us are a little weird. I guess something to think about is where do you know the "li…

> I guess something to think about is where do you know the "little weird" is treading towards excessive danger.

This is way beyond that. People don't huff nitrous oxide 12 times a day, every day, unless something is very wrong.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#212

Post by watwut »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #186
jacobolus wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been 1.5 million confirmed Covid deaths, but the total number of people who have died from Covid is far higher than that, I would guess at least 1 million more, but possibly higher. Even wealthy countries with developed healthcare/government infrastructure are missing a significant fraction of deaths (in the USA alone, we have probably missed about 100k Covid deaths from the confirmed count). In many less…

"Died with Covid", not "died from Covid". Regular old respiratory infections are a frequent indirect cause of strokes and heart attacks, but we've never claimed before that common colds cause "millions" of deaths.

I love how the assumption is always that confirmed covid death that were actually unrelated to covid are more frequent then covid death that were not confirmed.

But, chances are that latter are more frequent. Covid tests are not done on all deaths precisely in places where situation is worst.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#213

Post by schoen »

mlyle wrote: post #189

The article points to ordinary eccentricities a whole bunch for sensationalism. E.g. the 26 day alphabet diet mentioned here sounds interesting. Think of all the new things you'd try to fill out days where you don't know many foods that start with that letter. And the days that are mostly fasting (e.g. Z) aren't too common. Plenty of us are a little weird. I guess something to think about is where do you know the "li…

> And the days that are mostly fasting (e.g. Z) aren't too common.

You could eat ziti with zucchini!

Options I hadn't heard of before -- Slavic savories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapiekanka

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakuski

and Italian desserts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabaione

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppole

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuccotto

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#214

Post by johnwalkr »

rorykoehler wrote: post #207
enraged_camel wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Tony Hsieh had a surprisingly large collection of half-empty liquor bottles at his desk. Not just Tony. My best friend used to work at Zappos. He used to brag to me that every employee/team gets their own mini-fridge, which is stocked with booze and liquor. He said that a common "bonding" experience for different teams in the company is to exchange different types of liquor. This was in early 2010s. He said drinkin…

And this is supposed to be the company we look up to for guidance on building a culture?

Not to mention its failed experiment with holocracy, which is a great way to de facto promote the worst.[1]

[1] https://pando.com/2016/01/19/delivering-hopelessness-38-zapp...

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#215

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

ibejoeb wrote: post #184
overgard wrote: post #125

I think something that gets lost in the concern about COVID is how many addicts and people struggling with mental health are being killed indirectly by these quarantines. I don't have an easy answer of course, it's a serious virus, but while for a normal person these shutdowns are depressing, for addicts these shutdowns can be indirect death sentences. I really think that needs to get factored into these decisions.

> how many addicts and people struggling with mental health are being killed ...and how many new addicts and mental illnesses are being created

"The psychological impact of quarantine and how to reduce it: rapid review of the evidence" https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

quarantine and flattening the curve is important imo, but the way governments go about it is not. there needs to be a parallel campaign educating people about the effects of quarantine - which are well researched. Also I highly recommend reading up on the psychological effects incarceration has on felons.

Quarantined people aren't prisoners but there are parallels due to effects of isolation. Every re-socializing attempt of a prisoner even in the most "progressive" manner, has at its core idea to _first_ rob that person of their own agency.

Isolation opens up minds to new ideas and to cause them question everything. What minds are being fed in such a state is absolutely crucial to how they're reorienting themselves and what they latch on-to. Isolation breaks everyone except the hardest psychopaths, which is why it's used in every society (since earliest civilizations) as an instrument of control.

This lancet research paper isn't talking about felons but there are some hard to ignore parallels, maybe this is why politicians avoid the subject.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#216

Post by watwut »

jwmoz wrote: post #152
m3kw9 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups usually have fridge full of booze. We usually use it on fridays or during certain major milestones. Not a big deal

It's cool when you're in your 20s but not so much when you get older.

It becomes less and less cool as you age, because that is when you learn how many of cool adults you grew up with were hidden-to-you alcoholics or turned into full blown alcoholics. And as you age people speak more freely about negative things that happened all along you had no idea about as a kid and young one.

It becomes less and less cool as you age and realize you really gotta be careful not to go the same route.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#217

Post by throwaway201103 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #209
unishark wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they meant binge drinking. In many cultures, drinking is fine throughout the day, and it does not imply continuing until drunk.

What's the point in drinking any alcohol at all unless you want to achieve some level of impairment?

Some people do enjoy the taste, or the warming feel you get. I will sometimes have a small glass of whiskey in the evening just for that sensation, not to feel any intoxication.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#218

Post by aws_ls »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #180
overgard wrote: post #125

I think something that gets lost in the concern about COVID is how many addicts and people struggling with mental health are being killed indirectly by these quarantines. I don't have an easy answer of course, it's a serious virus, but while for a normal person these shutdowns are depressing, for addicts these shutdowns can be indirect death sentences. I really think that needs to get factored into these decisions.

Based on the article, it doesn't sound like he was actually living in isolation. He just chose to surround himself with a crowd that enabled selfdestructive behaviors.

From the article, "the pandemic closed off much of his social scene. His drug use increased"

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#219

Post by watwut »

ashtonkem wrote: post #98
yevpats wrote: post #15

RIP. It's really sad. Mental health problems are often dismissed or not caught in time. I read his book "Delivering Happiness" after I heard about his death and before reading this article about mental health problems. As I read it I saw some interesting stories and ideas about the businesses that he built but I also read stories which put way too much focus (imho) on various nights and parties which don't really rel…

> put way too much focus (imho) on various nights and parties which don't really relate to entrepreneurship or business. “Work hard, party hard” is an extremely common aspect of startup culture. I personally suspect that startups tend to draw in risk takers, which explains the prevalence of over-drinking in many (but not all) startups.

How is drinking risk taking? I was in groups that where drinking was super normalized and never ever perceived it to be dangerous. Plus, anxious fearful people do drink too, it makes them feel better.

I mean, I avoided drinking near to some specific individuals (I am woman), but I perceived those individuals to be unsafe. Drinking itself did not constituted risk taking for me.

Re: The Death of Tony Hsieh: A Spiral of Alcohol, Drugs and Extreme Behavior

#220

Post by throwaway201103 »

abootstrapper wrote: post #197
throwaway201103 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look a few generations back and reset your worldview. Been drafted into combat lately?

I agree. The good old days were terrible. No doubt many suffered through considerable mental anguish. Unfortunately, this knowledge does not usually help people currently living with depression or similar mental illness. It’s like, “I can’t pay my mortgage and I don’t where my family will live, but Grandpa was a POW in Nam, so no worries!”

Yeah, doesn't take it away but that perspective can make it more bearable. "Things could be worse" is a real way to cope with stress.
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