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The Economics of Christmas Trees

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Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#71

Post by jojobas »

sheeeep86 wrote: post #21
Slartie wrote: post #11

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than i…

We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.

It's not really labour intensive, you have to offset very little labour and rent of your 10 sqm of land (not suitable for any more profitable crop).

Some subsidies can play a role too.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#73

Post by DoreenMichele »

fortran77 wrote: post #47

My city, Sunnyvale, CA, has "free" tree disposal. I once complained to the City about why I had to subsidize someone else's religion. The answer made sense: the trees would be dumped if the city didn't collect them.

I hate Christmas because Christmas decorations get stored around 10 or 11 months out of the year and I used to end up on antibiotics every year at Christmas. Storing stuff like that tends to leave it covered in mildew.

I spoke once to someone who was allergic to Christmas trees and she was sympathetic. Everyone else typically hates on me for mentioning it. I'm a party pooper for not wanting to be deathly ill.

It also aggravates me to see articles with themes such as celebrating "the most Christmasy town in America!" that really mean the most gaudily decorated every year. No, this does not mean some spirit of giving where homeless people are gifted houses or something like that.

I also find it baffling that strident feminists haven't latched onto the angle that "Christmas promotes an evil patriarchy!."

Christmas used to be a time when poor people and children got gifts. Now it's a time when Americans load up their credit cards to engage in mostly pointless rituals that results in a mini depression every January and a chronic burden of debt on the country.

I'm not a fan and it has little to do with my general aversion to religion, though I found this article interesting enough to read and I posted the link to this HN discussion over on r/UrbanForestry. (Crossing my fingers and hoping no one hassles me about "Why on earth is this here??")

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#74

Post by syrrim »

silexia wrote: post #16

I run a Christmas tree farm at a small scale. I wonder if real Christmas trees are actually worse for the environment than fake trees as many real Christmas trees are burned rather than sent to a landfill?

The trees absorb carbon as they grow, which is emitted when they are burned. Plastic trees, by contrast, will sit in landfill forever.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#75

Post by bigger_cheese »

bombcar wrote: post #28
silexia wrote: post #16

I run a Christmas tree farm at a small scale. I wonder if real Christmas trees are actually worse for the environment than fake trees as many real Christmas trees are burned rather than sent to a landfill?

Based on the listed sales numbers it appears a majority of fake trees are a one-year deal (maybe two). You can’t sell 25m fake trees a year if people are keeping them for next year.

My Parents still have the same artificial tree from when I was a kid, it has lasted 30+ years.

Here in Australia I think Artificial Trees are the norm, I've never really thought about it before, Possibly because Christmas is in Middle of summer and real trees would be difficult to keep looking fresh.

I always felt a lot of cognitive dissonance around Christmas growing up all the songs and decorations are about snow and winter but the weather here is oppressively hot.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#76

Post by Scoundreller »

jojobas wrote: post #71
sheeeep86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.

It's not really labour intensive, you have to offset very little labour and rent of your 10 sqm of land (not suitable for any more profitable crop). Some subsidies can play a role too.

Yeah, many “Christmas tree” species can grow in highly acidic soil that’s otherwise only good for blueberries, which are tasty, but usually not much else.

At the end of the Christmas season, you can still compost the tree or turn it into wood chips.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#77

Post by Scoundreller »

tpmx wrote: post #69
sheeeep86 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.

Perhaps grown in e.g. Poland where land and manpower is lower priced, compared to Germany? Ikea Sweden used to sell similar-priced christmas trees "farmed" in Denmark, but they stopped doing that after accusations that they were undermining local suppliers of non-herbicide-grown christmas trees. (In Sweden christmas trees tend to be expensive in cities and cheap/free in the countryside.)

Ikea has some loss leaders.

Christmas probably isn’t busy for them since there’s not a lot of real estate turnover in December.

I once ran the numbers for their tealights and I couldn’t even buy bulk wax that cheaply.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#78

Post by brentm »

Aeolun wrote: post #60
kurthr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price from a grower (with 20-30% margin) is $30-35 or about the same. It's the fact that retailers (like always) have a 100% markup (50% margin) so if you go to a random convenience store it'll cost double and they'll make the money. No different from most consumer items. Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever.

> Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever. Unfortunately they look like a fake tree forever too. It’s better than no tree at all, but not very inspiring.

You'll never beat the real thing without the smell but if you spend decent money you can buy a convincing looking fake.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#79

Post by butwhydotjpg »

js2 wrote: post #51
Slartie wrote: post #11

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than i…

I’ve lived in NC piedmont area (a couple hours drive from tree farms) since 2004 and basically paid $65-75 for a 6-7 ft tree every year. Every year but one we’ve gotten our tree from whatever corner lot was convenient. (One year we were late and only Home Depot had any trees left.) There is either a shortage of trees this year or people shopped early. We got our tree earlier today and it was the last of two. They gav…

Due to the long growing cycles for christmas trees, we're now entering a shortage caused by the 2008 recession, and it's expected to last a few years.

Re: The Economics of Christmas Trees

#80

Post by cesarb »

bigger_cheese wrote: post #75
bombcar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the listed sales numbers it appears a majority of fake trees are a one-year deal (maybe two). You can’t sell 25m fake trees a year if people are keeping them for next year.

My Parents still have the same artificial tree from when I was a kid, it has lasted 30+ years. Here in Australia I think Artificial Trees are the norm, I've never really thought about it before, Possibly because Christmas is in Middle of summer and real trees would be difficult to keep looking fresh. I always felt a lot of cognitive dissonance around Christmas growing up all the songs and decorations are about snow a…

We stopped using our artificial tree because many of the branches are broken, probably from the weight of all the decorations. It too lasted over 30 years.

We have the same kind of disconnect around here (Brazil): all these people dressed as Santa Claus (heavy-looking winter clothing) in the middle of 40 degree Rio de Janeiro summer has always been an odd juxtaposition.

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