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Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

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Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#361

Post by baby »

davidgerard wrote: post #339
baby wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said elsewhere this is not related to Novi. Novi is just a wallet using DIEM, and will have its own users (like any wallet or bank or trading platform has). That being said, there is a lot of work being put in making sure that FB doesn't have access to Novi user data. Of course, sometimes one employee's mistake can lead to infringement of a claim, so to avoid that good frameworks have to be put into place.

What other Diem Association members have even announced plans to issue a wallet? As I understand, that number is presently zero. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.) And unhosted wallets won't be allowed - all consumers will need to transact via a Diem Association member. So Diem usage really is 100% Novi for the known future.

Hey David! I'm actually unsure about these so I'd rather not comment besides the fact that Diem being 100% Novi would be bad (or useless) yes.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#362

Post by tomp »

mareko wrote: post #281
tomp wrote: post #56

Ok, so let's focus on the underlying idea, without the "Facebook is trying to rebrand their evil brand" cruft. Basically, I think the underlying idea is valuable - low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers - clearly something missing right now in this world, even for the "global rich" (citizens of first-world countries), let alone for the "unbanked". It could even scale even more to a money store but that'…

These are great questions. Here are my thoughts / answers: > 1. Is there a reason this is tied to the blockchain For FB, you're 100% right. FB could have likely just used a relational DB in the short term. However, if you don't want to tie this to a single company (your second question), then a blockchain does make it easier for multiple entities to agree on the state of the db. I would argue that modern Proof of Sta…

Thanks! Celo looks very interesting, I gotta try it next time I'm transferring money!

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#363

Post by oblio »

aaronax wrote: post #355
oblio wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you resort to if you get defrauded through blockchain currencies... ? The Trusty Libertarian Neighborhood Watch?

The police, just like when you use cash for commerce and someone scams you.

Yeah, but then what's the point?

If the whole point of cryptocurrencies is to work around the government and cryptocurrencies are going to strip them of various tools they use (control over inflation and monetary mass, monetary controls in the sense of taking money outside of a country, etc), governments will most likely not allow that, for pretty solid reasons.

It's an interesting experiment, I'll grant it that. But I don't think it can have its cake and eat it, too. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#364

Post by oblio »

betwixthewires wrote: post #356
oblio wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very niche use case, though. Especially for creating a new global currency, used by everyone . And those people are probably screwed anyway, unfortunately for them. If a big government hates your guts... you're not going to make it. Might be safer for them to buy gold and just bolt.

It is easier to carry cryptocurrency than gold while fleeing from armed men.

Agreed.

How about the first point, that it solves a problem most people don't have? Why would this be a mass market product? What's the benefit for J. Random?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#365

Post by oblio »

tipsysquid wrote: post #358
oblio wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you resort to if you get defrauded through blockchain currencies... ? The Trusty Libertarian Neighborhood Watch?

This is a valid concern, but what do you say to the current system that does not prevent all kinds of fraud. Perhaps even rampant with it. An easy search will show you that large regulated institutions participate and engage in fraud at all levels of their institution. Why is it that crypto must bear a larger burden of scrutiny against the status quo? I believe that fraud is easier to identify and financially punish…

> Why is it that crypto must bear a larger burden of scrutiny against the status quo?

Because the status quo is here and change is costly and risky. Because we know about the limitations and failure modes of the status quo.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#366

Post by betwixthewires »

oblio wrote: post #364
betwixthewires wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easier to carry cryptocurrency than gold while fleeing from armed men.

Agreed. How about the first point, that it solves a problem most people don't have? Why would this be a mass market product? What's the benefit for J. Random?

I'm copying a comment I made earlier that answers this question:

So I hate to use the word I'm about to use, because of the modern connotations associated with it, but it does apply here. There are billions of people who are abused by their government, who cannot trust their government, who's local money is debased by their government at a whim. You are privileged (there's that word) to have a government that you feel you can trust to control the value of your savings and your purchasing power. You do not see the value proposition because there is not much of one for you. Cryptocurrency doesn't exist for you. It exists for the people who do need it. And again, there are billions of people who need it, as much as half the world's population, possibly more.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#367

Post by oblio »

betwixthewires wrote: post #366
oblio wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. How about the first point, that it solves a problem most people don't have? Why would this be a mass market product? What's the benefit for J. Random?

I'm copying a comment I made earlier that answers this question: So I hate to use the word I'm about to use, because of the modern connotations associated with it, but it does apply here. There are billions of people who are abused by their government, who cannot trust their government, who's local money is debased by their government at a whim. You are privileged (there's that word) to have a government that you fee…

I'm doubtful that it will be adopted in developing and underdeveloped countries, but it's something we will only be able to check in a few decades.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#369

Post by jamesmehaffey »

x87678r wrote: post #343
jamesmehaffey wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that the fees for some of the cryptocurrency’s make them impractical, and this certainly will hinder mainstream adoption. I do not think that I will try to pay for coffee with some of my antique gold coins any time soon, but that does not render them any less valuable. bitcoin plays a similar role in the context of digital assets for the moment. It frustrates me when I read other comments here dismis…

I know what you're trying to say but 99.999% of people do not own antique gold coins, are you saying the same about bitcoin?

Not at all. I suppose that I am just trying to point out that every asset has its pros and cons depending on the situation. The Euros at the bottom of my travel case are just as useful to me as my gold coins at the moment, and the pennies under my couch cushions, though easily more liquid, are much less valuable than either. Bitcoin is obviously far more accessible and convenient than gold, but I just cannot see anyone using it for small transactions... at least while the network fees are as high as they currently are.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#370

Post by Ericson2314 »

obilgic wrote: post #301
Ericson2314 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US has a culture that knows that resisting the change isn't way to stay as #1 Are you kidding? This is the country that avoids the Metric system remember. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Metric_America oops.

Are you saying that because of It's refusal of metric system, It has lost its #1 spot?

No I'm saying that for quite some time, the US has not made the reforms it should have that other countries did.

Perhaps the ratio of exceptionalism to gridlock as the excuse for stasis has changed, but the stasis itself hasn't.

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