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Docker's Second Death

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Re: Docker's Second Death

#21

Post by andrewguenther »

axaxs wrote: post #8
andrewguenther wrote: post #7

Docker Inc's antagonistic attitude towards Red Hat and personal attacks on their engineers was the beginning of the end for them. The people who really headlined those attacks are now gone, but the damage was done. Docker made it clear from the beginning they had no desire to be part of a community and now the community is leaving them behind. Good riddance.

Any good source/summary of the above? I guess I'm out of the loop, but attacking a company as trusted as Red Hat seems a bad idea.

It's difficult to dig up old drama when "Docker" is in your Google search, but this article gives a peek: https://lwn.net/Articles/676831/

Re: Docker's Second Death

#22

Post by black3r »

Even though Kubernetes won't use Docker inside anymore.., Docker is still a very good piece of software for easily running Linux images on Windows and Mac. Dockerfile is still the easiest way to build images (even though now there are alternatives to docker build such as buildah). docker-compose is still a very simple way of running containers locally if you don't need kubernetes (e.g. on my raspberrypi for running homeassistant, transmission and plex)...

but yeah.., Docker Inc. overestimated their importance and got what they deserve = Open Source tools wanting to distance from them.

Re: Docker's Second Death

#24

Post by github_drop_ice »

dave_4_bagels wrote: post #14

So what should we use for a local "kubernetes" stand in on mac os?

minikube. It works with every hypervisor (or even old docker desktop) and spins up a linux VM to run all the kubernetes services, your containers, etc. The CLI is dead simple to learn (minikube start and you're done) and the tool is endorsed, used and maintained by the official kubernetes team.

Re: Docker's Second Death

#25

Post by hmottestad »

skrebbel wrote: post #11

I feel like I'm missing some key insight here. To me, the tl;dr of this post is: Kubernetes removed the need for Docker just to run container images in a k8s cluster, ergo, Docker is dead. But Kubernetes is super complicated . The author seems to assume that everybody wants to run everything in Kubernetes, but if I want to run some backend on some server (or maybe on a few servers), then it feels like extreme overkil…

From my experience, it's getting easier to set up Kubernetes with things like OKD (open source OpenShift) or Rancher... but it'll still take you days or weeks (or months in my case). And the organisations that I've heard of in Norway that have actually had success have also had a team of devops people to both set it up and keep it running.

Re: Docker's Second Death

#26

Post by grogenaut »

hmottestad wrote: post #12

I enjoyed the following: > Though it [Docker] does live on strongly within CI/CD ecosystems and, ostensibly, the inner loop of development thanks to the de facto standard Dockerfile. Docker will still live on for both Windows and Mac developers. As a platform for running production code it might be dead or dying, but as an ecosystem and a development tool it will continue to live and probably thrive. Docker is still…

Back in 2013 before I took a job at amazon but after working with a game dev for playstation I had 2 months off, playing with docker I realized how good it's be for crap like chroot jail dev or multi-project dev env isolation. There were big blockers for it being used this way then. I did some chatting with the docker team and we did push things a little in that direction. But the vision was still about running in prod.

To their credit the docker folks I talked with did listen and respond and move the needle (obviously) on it being a local dev tool, so I cheer them for that.

I use it all the time in my windows box for dev. Tho I do try and keep my software able to run on any os.

Re: Docker's Second Death

#28

Post by WJW »

dave_4_bagels wrote: post #14

So what should we use for a local "kubernetes" stand in on mac os?

There's always minikube/k3s, but I think the article overblows the death of Docker a bit. Docker no longer being required in k8s is going to hurt its potential in "prod" for sure, but the `docker run` style commands for running a db locally will work for a long long time.

Re: Docker's Second Death

#29

Post by skrebbel »

goatinaboat wrote: post #19
skrebbel wrote: post #11

I feel like I'm missing some key insight here. To me, the tl;dr of this post is: Kubernetes removed the need for Docker just to run container images in a k8s cluster, ergo, Docker is dead. But Kubernetes is super complicated . The author seems to assume that everybody wants to run everything in Kubernetes, but if I want to run some backend on some server (or maybe on a few servers), then it feels like extreme overkil…

But Kubernetes is super complicated. It can be, but running minikube or k3s on your laptop is trivial, and what you do with them transfers very easily to real Kubernetes.

Will that allow me to ship software to servers (not enormous clusters, I mean like a couple of VMs somewhere) without having to first become a Kubernetes expert?

I mean, that was one of the key Docker promises, and they delivered to quite an extent.

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