Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra • Hacker News Board

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#171

Post by camgunz » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #159

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's right about roasting the planet though. Scarcity without computational (and literal) power is necessary. Maybe if we could use the inherent incalculability of the three-body problem as the basis for a cryptocurrency. You'd need to observe the universe to "find" astrocoins. It would be Astrology on steroids. Of course that leaves out verifiability, encryption, anonymous identity yet ownership. What if you (someho…

> He's right about roasting the planet though. ...no? Diem/Libra is built on Cosmos, which is a proof-of-stake system, not a proof-of-work system. Validator nodes in a proof-of-stake system do not compete to work ever harder to mine the same resources. There are a rather large number of such validator nodes (100+ at minimum), but that's also true of banks when you translate their Highly-Available mainframe stacks int…

I'll cop to hand-waving and painting cryptocurrencies w/ a broad brush here. But it seems like Diem hasn't really figured out what its system is gonna be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diem_(digital_currency)#Implem.... Looking at their docs and such, it seems like it'll be centralized under the stakeholders until they implement proof of stake, which IMO makes it just another reserve bank.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#172

Post by hobby-coder-guy » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #138

colordrops wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is there still so much of ignorance over cryptocurrency this far along after its inception? Just because you buy and sell gold with major currencies doesn't mean gold is regulated. Crypto isn't much different. If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain. Once you leave the blockchain, you aren't dealing with crypto anymore. Once you sell gold you aren't d…

He's right about roasting the planet though. Scarcity without computational (and literal) power is necessary. Maybe if we could use the inherent incalculability of the three-body problem as the basis for a cryptocurrency. You'd need to observe the universe to "find" astrocoins. It would be Astrology on steroids. Of course that leaves out verifiability, encryption, anonymous identity yet ownership. What if you (someho…

Astrology?

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#173

Post by toomuchtodo » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

rytill wrote: post #169

camgunz wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about a commodity, not a currency. No one walks around with gold nuggets (or jugs of milk, or bales of wheat) in their pocket because our economy doesn't use the barter system. The difference between cryptocurrencies and other commodities is that other commodities have intrinsic worth. You can drink milk, you can eat wheat. You can't do anything with cryptocurrency, it's just a long, meaningless number…

It’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.

Money is backed by a central bank that is accountable to a government body. Crypto is backed by speculation and tech bros (shorthand for the hyper technocratic libertarian).

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#174

Post by camgunz » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #158

camgunz wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, short-term thinking. As a purely digital currency, cryptocurrency gets greener every year as the grid gets greener. I'm happy to pause all cryptocurrency mining and transactions until humanity is carbon free. I doubt long BTCs will be though.

Ah yes, the luddite approach, an age-old classic.

You can dismiss it as such, but can you really deny that:

- Cryptocurrency uses tons of electricity

- Climate change is real and super bad

I would (obviously) rather have a livable Earth than cryptocurrency, and I don't think that's weird.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#175

Post by pimlottc » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

swyx wrote: post #94

pimlottc wrote: post #11

Article title at the time of this post, in case HN editors change it: > Diem - A rebrand of Facebook Libra Understanding who is behind this is extremely relevant.

why so little trust of the HN mods?

Because official policy is to use the original title as written by the authors, which in this case doesn’t mention Facebook at all.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#176

Post by geraldbauer » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #88

Interesting. They went from "Libra" (implying Freedom) to "Diem" (which sounds a lot like Die or Dying).

From The Awesome Diem (formerly Libra) Page [1]:

Diem stems from the famous latin phrase 'Carpe Diem' translating to 'Enjoy the present, make the most of today', a common mistranslation is 'Seize the Day' (via Wiktionary)

Carpe is the second-person singular present active imperative of carpō "pick or pluck" used by Horace to mean "enjoy, seize, use, make use of". Diem is the accusative of dies "day". A more literal translation of carpe diem would thus be "pluck the day as it is ripe" - that is, enjoy the moment. It has been argued by various authors that this interpretation is closer to Horace's original meaning (via Carpe diem @ Wikipedia)

[1]: https://github.com/openblockchains/awesome-diem

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#177

Post by lbotos » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

rytill wrote: post #169

camgunz wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about a commodity, not a currency. No one walks around with gold nuggets (or jugs of milk, or bales of wheat) in their pocket because our economy doesn't use the barter system. The difference between cryptocurrencies and other commodities is that other commodities have intrinsic worth. You can drink milk, you can eat wheat. You can't do anything with cryptocurrency, it's just a long, meaningless number…

It’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.

Money (at least in the US) is backed by the "full faith of the US Government" for whatever that is worth.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/145722-what-really-backs-th...

a lot of people like that crypto isn't backed by a gov, but i'd like to believe that most people would agree that the government has some intrinsic worth.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#178

Post by camgunz » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

rytill wrote: post #169

camgunz wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about a commodity, not a currency. No one walks around with gold nuggets (or jugs of milk, or bales of wheat) in their pocket because our economy doesn't use the barter system. The difference between cryptocurrencies and other commodities is that other commodities have intrinsic worth. You can drink milk, you can eat wheat. You can't do anything with cryptocurrency, it's just a long, meaningless number…

It’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.

If the US or EU (etc.) valued their goods and services in BTC, banked in BTC, built monetary and foreign policy around BTC then you would be correct. It is all meaningless, and that's the definition of fiat.

What distinguishes one fiat from another is "do important people believe in it". There may come a day when that's true for cryptocurrencies, but that day is not today.

Further, I doubt it ever will come, because cryptocurrency's core scarcity hamstrings monetary policy. No competent government would ever accept such restrictions. This is a feature for cryptocurrency enthusiasts (digital gold bugs) but a huge shortcoming for everyone else.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#179

Post by samatman » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

noelsusman wrote: post #151

fastball wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly like the argument that electric cars aren't actually any better because grid electricity is not currently very green in most parts of the world. The response of course being that as the grid gets greener (which it does every year), your car becomes greener also. If you have a gasoline car, it will be just as dirty in 20 years as it is today. Same thing with crypto. Yes, currently a lot of people buy a…

Why would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?

The 2% annual debasement rate of modern state currencies would have been a massive crisis in the era of metals. Imagine a king putting 2% less silver in the coin, year over year. We're just used to it.

But leave that aside, you said you like government-managed currency and I believe you. Venezuelans don't. The way I see it, what's stopping the EUR and USD from going down that spiral is momentum, rather than some law of nature.

I'm not convince the issuing schedule for BTC is ideal either. Grin, to pick a cybercoin which has some interesting technical innovations, issues one coin per minute, forever, and since coins are lost, this might be better.

But I like the idea of a transnational currency, where no one government is in a position to change the rate of issue, and I think Bitcoin has real potential as a refuge for value to flee to, in the event that the increasingly reckless experiments which Western governments and their central banks are making with their currencies come back to bite us.

Don't think it would spell the end of sovereign currencies, either. It would force them to be more honest, though, and that would be a good thing.

Re: Diem – A rebrand of Facebook’s Libra

#180

Post by isthatsoup » Sun, Dec 06, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

waihtis wrote: post #133

colordrops wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is there still so much of ignorance over cryptocurrency this far along after its inception? Just because you buy and sell gold with major currencies doesn't mean gold is regulated. Crypto isn't much different. If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain. Once you leave the blockchain, you aren't dealing with crypto anymore. Once you sell gold you aren't d…

Gold and crypto are hardly comparable. Start by factoring in all the crime & scams being done via crypto and you've got a general public practically begging for government intervention for cryptocurrencies.

compared with all the crime and scams done with fiat currencies