This seems to contradict the common assertion that Javascript and Java are unrelated. Interesting.
Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
461–470 of 476 posts
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#462As a complement to Java!?
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
"What you're saying boils down to "JS programmers are some special class of people that are incapable of learning". Which is elitist nonsense. " No. It boils down to JS programmers often have a background in design and not math and engineering. The former is helpful for nice UI and UX. The later good for efficient algorithms and code design. And is your question about JS being a dynamic scripting language, a serious…
> The former is helpful for nice UI and UX. The later good for efficient algorithms and code design. Again, you keep moving the goalposts. You started with the claim that most JS programmers were incapable of writing Hello World in C.
"You started with the claim that most JS programmers were incapable of writing Hello World in C."
That claim is still valid. Have you worked with designers?
Also, have you checked wikipedia by now?
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The former is helpful for nice UI and UX. The later good for efficient algorithms and code design. Again, you keep moving the goalposts. You started with the claim that most JS programmers were incapable of writing Hello World in C.
"You started with the claim that most JS programmers were incapable of writing Hello World in C." That claim is still valid. Have you worked with designers? Also, have you checked wikipedia by now?
> That claim is still valid. Have you worked with designers?
Yes. I have. I'm telling you that people with zero knowledge of programming can write Hello World in 10 minutes if you teach them. That's why I'm calling your statement elitist nonsense, because it is.
I was asking you what you think a "scripting" language is, not what Wikipedia says it is.
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thunderbird debuted as Netscape mail and was combined in Netscape Communicator suite I believe. Memory fuzzy.
Thunderbird came out of the Netscape 6 rewrite by way of the Mozilla Application Suite, not either of the Netscape 3 or Netscape 4 mail clients.
I find it hard to believe it doesn't share any code, it was a near copy.
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
"You started with the claim that most JS programmers were incapable of writing Hello World in C." That claim is still valid. Have you worked with designers? Also, have you checked wikipedia by now?
> That claim is still valid. Have you worked with designers? Yes. I have. I'm telling you that people with zero knowledge of programming can write Hello World in 10 minutes if you teach them. That's why I'm calling your statement elitist nonsense, because it is. I was asking you what you think a "scripting" language is, not what Wikipedia says it is.
"if you teach them"
Yeah well, lots of javascript programmers are not formally taught. That is still the point.
Anyone can write C programms if taken by the hand. But not without.
But allmost anyone can write javascript without being taken by the hand.
You just open the console/integrated dev tools.
Type in some commands you see on some website - voila, first programm. Then you can make experiments on the fly - because, wait for it - scripting language.
The enviroment is already there and you manipulate it with some scripts. You see immediately what works and what not.
In C you have to build your enviroment. Means setting up compiler etc. .. which means knowing the terminal or setting up complex software with nonintuitive design. Many ways of fail for the unguided beginner before the first programm succesfully compiles and .. then it still can fail on runtime.
Is that difference so hard to grasp?
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#467I still don't know why they stuck the "Java" name on JavaScript. Very confusing when the two languages are completely unrelated. > Java programs and JavaScript scripts are designed to run on both clients and servers, with JavaScript scripts used to modify the properties and behavior of Java objects, so the range of live online applications that dynamically present information to and interact with users over enterpris…
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Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thunderbird came out of the Netscape 6 rewrite by way of the Mozilla Application Suite, not either of the Netscape 3 or Netscape 4 mail clients.
I find it hard to believe it doesn't share any code, it was a near copy.
Near copy how? Their UIs? Rebooting a project or cloning another project and copying the old UI without sharing code isn't necessarily hard. I've done it plenty. Netscape was already doing it internally—each platform's (Unix, Windows, etc) GUI was a separate project. The details don't really match up, either. Netscape 3 was written in C. Netscape 6, Thunderbird et al are drawn by Gecko and written in JavaScript and XUL—which didn't even exist at the time of Netscape 3.
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#469Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That claim is still valid. Have you worked with designers? Yes. I have. I'm telling you that people with zero knowledge of programming can write Hello World in 10 minutes if you teach them. That's why I'm calling your statement elitist nonsense, because it is. I was asking you what you think a "scripting" language is, not what Wikipedia says it is.
"if you teach them" Yeah well, lots of javascript programmers are not formally taught. That is still the point. Anyone can write C programms if taken by the hand. But not without. But allmost anyone can write javascript without being taken by the hand. You just open the console/integrated dev tools. Type in some commands you see on some website - voila, first programm. Then you can make experiments on the fly - becau…
> Anyone can write C programms if taken by the hand
A textbook is hardly "taken by the hand". But never mind that.
> You just open the console/integrated dev tools.
And how does someone with zero knowledge of web programming know these even exist?
> Type in some commands you see on some website - voila, first programm
Right. How is this any different from a JS programmer looking up "Hello world" on a C programming website?
> The enviroment is already there and you manipulate it with some scripts
How do you know what "scripts" to try if you've never written JS?
> Then you can make experiments on the fly - because, wait for it - scripting language.
As opposed to...saving a .c file and re-running a single compile command? That's not a huge barrier.
> You see immediately what works and what not.
Does a Hello World program in C take multiple minutes to compile and run?
> Means setting up compiler etc. .. which means knowing the terminal or setting up complex software with nonintuitive design
Lmao at "knowing the terminal" and "setting up compiler". These "designers" you scoff at use Macbooks. Which have a perfectly operational terminal and clang installed by default. I can tell someone in once sentence how to open a terminal, compile and run a C file. I've personally taught multiple designers how to use a terminal. We're allowed to assume that "designers" know how to open a text file and save it right? Or does that take more "math and engineering" knowledge than the average designer has?
> Many ways of fail for the unguided beginner before the first programm succesfully compiles
More than for an unguided beginner writing JS? I doubt it.
As someone who writes C++ for a living, I think you should re-examine your beliefs about C and JS programmers' ability and proficiency.
Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
Web browsers were not invented to be application platforms. They were intended to view documents and click through them. Server-side applications (CGI) started the trend of the web browser becoming an application interface. Javascript made the web browser the application platform . But of course it was not designed for this, so a million hacks have been added to shore it up. To the point of literally including a stan…
> ...not invented to be application platforms. Phones were invented to only make phone calls. Coca-Cola was originally created as a way to counter morphine addiction. Listerine was originally a floor cleaner. None of those were turds and neither is the web as an application platform. Quite the opposite- Native apps suck compared to web apps. The only native apps I personally use besides the browser on my phone are Ma…
Right. Because Slack is such a joy to use in browsers that there is no native app needed.
Oh wait. Yes there is. It's the web app as a native app, because the browser experience literally wasn't good enough.
Saying web apps are superior to native apps is like saying a bicycle with a 2-stroke is superior to a motorcycle. Maybe for your use case it's better, but objectively it is literally a crappy imitation of the real thing that can't even do things the real thing can. A web app is the Visual Basic of applications (but not really since VB is so much more useful!)