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Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

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Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#61

Post by tent3n3 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #3

When I was a child and teen I was a hyperactive, unstimulated, bored, D- student. Ritalin drastically changed that and I was getting A's and teachers described me as a whole different person. I would too: it made me antisocial and jittery and basically robbed me of my humanity. Since then I've found drug-free strategies to manage my intellectual/social Jekyll and Hyde. The idea of performance enhancing drugs making t…

Ritalin is one thing. As a shroom microdoser formerly on SSRIs and MAOI style drugs: shrooms do not rob you of humanity.

I’m not buying the holier than thou thing from the west anymore, or it’s Puritanism.

Free market of ideas need not be limited to retail shelves, and stock markets.

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#62

Post by klodolph »

adamsea wrote: post #2

Love it - only half-joking. Take advantage of a large population of healthy young men under close medical supervision and government access to good LSD in order to run a good experiment to see if micro dosing has positive cognitive effects.

Probably will turn out better than project MKUltra. Probably.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#LSD

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#63

Post by tayo42 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #52
tayo42 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of psychedelics include a ton of irresponsible use in the 60s which lead to reactionary banning before there was clear medical uses. Research was happening but nothing conclusive. Meth has established medical uses. There's no conspiracy to prevent people from questioning wars, we do that without drugs anyway.

"Research was happening but nothing conclusive" I've read that before it was made illegal LSD was the most studied pharmaceutical compound in the world, with literally thousands of papers written on it. There were clearly medical uses, and it was being used medically. Whether the research was "conclusive" is a matter of opinion. Pretty much all of the psychedelic researchers I've read or heard interviews with (which…

I just went to double check my self quickly. It never was an official medicine, therapy with it was still experimental for alcoholism. It was having success but turned into a recreational drug that scared people so it all got banned. The same thing happened with mdma and crack later on. The penalties were excessive and reactionary to recreational use.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/neurophilosophy/2014/sep...

This was the end of 50s early 60s, seems we still did stuff like lobotomies. Idk if I can blame law makers for not taking psychiatry seriously at the time.

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#64

Post by pmoriarty »

tayo42 wrote: post #63
pmoriarty wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Research was happening but nothing conclusive" I've read that before it was made illegal LSD was the most studied pharmaceutical compound in the world, with literally thousands of papers written on it. There were clearly medical uses, and it was being used medically. Whether the research was "conclusive" is a matter of opinion. Pretty much all of the psychedelic researchers I've read or heard interviews with (which…

I just went to double check my self quickly. It never was an official medicine, therapy with it was still experimental for alcoholism. It was having success but turned into a recreational drug that scared people so it all got banned. The same thing happened with mdma and crack later on. The penalties were excessive and reactionary to recreational use. https://www.theguardian.com/science/neurophilosophy/2014/sep... Th…

"This was the end of 50s early 60s, seems we still did stuff like lobotomies. Idk if I can blame law makers for not taking psychiatry seriously at the time."

LSD was made illegal in 1968, so actually it was the late 60's (right at the peak of social unrest and reactionary backlash in the US), and they took psychiatry very seriously then, but they didn't ban lobotomies, just LSD.

It was pretty clearly a moral panic. Had absolutely nothing to do with science.

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#65

Post by tehlike »

d0100 wrote: post #46
IIAOPSW wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're all on caffeine already and no one is clutching pearls over it. How is taking harder drugs any different other than in effectiveness?

Whenever threads mention caffeine I am compelled to share that caffeine has no effect whatsoever on me. To my sadness, it feels like I'm excluded from a common universal community and performance advantage

Same here, I imagine this might be due to me drinking coke zero in huge quantities, and that somehow making me indifferent to caffeine even when i am not drinking coke.

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#66

Post by enw »

piracy1 wrote: post #59
Waterluvian wrote: post #3

When I was a child and teen I was a hyperactive, unstimulated, bored, D- student. Ritalin drastically changed that and I was getting A's and teachers described me as a whole different person. I would too: it made me antisocial and jittery and basically robbed me of my humanity. Since then I've found drug-free strategies to manage my intellectual/social Jekyll and Hyde. The idea of performance enhancing drugs making t…

It's more of a warplace than a work place thought. And ppl have been giving solders drugs forever.

Speaking of soldiers getting drugs, is there any literature that describes their perspective? It seems to be told in a negative light.

But I could imagine getting government-vouched drugs for free could be more than appreciated by soldiers on the frontlines.

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#67

Post by tayo42 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #64
tayo42 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just went to double check my self quickly. It never was an official medicine, therapy with it was still experimental for alcoholism. It was having success but turned into a recreational drug that scared people so it all got banned. The same thing happened with mdma and crack later on. The penalties were excessive and reactionary to recreational use. https://www.theguardian.com/science/neurophilosophy/2014/sep... Th…

"This was the end of 50s early 60s, seems we still did stuff like lobotomies. Idk if I can blame law makers for not taking psychiatry seriously at the time." LSD was made illegal in 1968, so actually it was the late 60's (right at the peak of social unrest and reactionary backlash in the US), and they took psychiatry very seriously then, but they didn't ban lobotomies, just LSD. It was pretty clearly a moral panic. H…

The op I responded to

> I'm pretty sure the tendency for LSD users to ethically object to war or other offensive violence is exactly why the US decided it should be treated as more dangerous than crystal meth

The point I was trying to make

> It was pretty clearly a moral panic. Had absolutely nothing to do with science.

It has nothing to with being anti war, lawmakers panicked when it became a recreational drug and didn't know what to do.

Also california and nevada made lsd illegal in 1966

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#68

Post by neves »

enw wrote: post #66
piracy1 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more of a warplace than a work place thought. And ppl have been giving solders drugs forever.

Speaking of soldiers getting drugs, is there any literature that describes their perspective? It seems to be told in a negative light. But I could imagine getting government-vouched drugs for free could be more than appreciated by soldiers on the frontlines.

https://time.com/5752114/nazi-military-drugs/

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#69

Post by meowface »

yellowapple wrote: post #28
pmoriarty wrote: post #14

It would be interesting to see if microdosing LSD would lead to any ethical objections to war or violence on the part of the Marines.

I mean, I'm pretty sure the tendency for LSD users to ethically object to war or other offensive violence is exactly why the US decided it should be treated as more dangerous than crystal meth (or perfectly legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco and caffeine) despite there being precisely zero evidence of such danger.

How much has this tendency been researched, though? Could there be a confounder where Americans who are more likely to take LSD are more likely to be anti-war for reasons unrelated to the LSD itself?

I agree it's absurd that it's illegal (or that any drug is illegal, but it's especially absurd that LSD is considered more dangerous than amphetamine, as you say), but I'm skeptical both of the motive you state (that the US government banned it because they feared it'd make more people opposed to the war) and that it necessarily correlates much with generating anti-war sentiment in people who otherwise didn't have any.

I think the effects are highly dependent on the environment, the intentions, and existing predisposition of the user and the people around them. For example, it's been reported that viking berserkers used to take psychedelic mushrooms before entering battle, because the mushrooms would help induce the berserk state.

Re: Microdosing: Improving performance enhancement in intelligence analysis (2019) [pdf]

#70

Post by notduncansmith »

pengaru wrote: post #18
Waterluvian wrote: post #3

When I was a child and teen I was a hyperactive, unstimulated, bored, D- student. Ritalin drastically changed that and I was getting A's and teachers described me as a whole different person. I would too: it made me antisocial and jittery and basically robbed me of my humanity. Since then I've found drug-free strategies to manage my intellectual/social Jekyll and Hyde. The idea of performance enhancing drugs making t…

> The idea of performance enhancing drugs making their way into the workplace arena scares me a lot. You say that as if it hasn't already happened, Adderall has been ubiquitous for years. At my last office job we had an intern from out of state miss work abruptly because she couldn't get her Adderall prescription filled, and, I shit you not, skipped work to fly to Nevada to fill her out of state 'script because CA ph…

Yeah, meth will do that to you.

I was diagnosed with inattentive-type ADHD, and while I definitely felt the “high” from Adderall (and was convinced I was more productive) it was hard to say I actually was. I did find it easier to stay up later than I should; but that loan always comes with interest, the drugs just give you a bigger line of credit. Ditto other stimulants.

The only stimulant I still use is caffeine, and I would like to use that one less. For non-chemical coping, I find day-before and morning-of planning to help immensely with my ADHD symptoms. I do wish I had gotten non-medication help sooner in life, but even in my late twenties, still better late than never.

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