Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy' • Hacker News Board

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#61

Post by monoideism » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

rukuu001 wrote: post #60

glangdale wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides William S Burroughs wrote, at the end of "The Naked Lunch": "Statistically, the people who become addicted to morphine are those who have access to it: doctors, nurses, anyone in contact with black market sources. In Persia, where opium is sold without control in opium shops, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. So we should psychoanaly…

I think it’s very true that availability and norms will have a lot to do with drug use, and heroin often doesn’t give a second chance to people who are experimenting. However the with regard to the idea of ‘deep seated issues’ affecting addiction, I believe this is also true. We have communities here that provide the opportunity for perfect control of substances - they’re remote and access to them is strictly control…

> It’s recognized that the people in those communities have suffered a deep, inter-generational trauma,

Really? What about the Jewish people, who have been subjected to extremely high levels of inter-generational trauma. Yet they don't fall prey to particularly high levels of alcoholism or drug addiction.

Sure, current poverty can predispose some to addiction, but the idea of "inter-generational trauma" being a massive risk factor is unproven, to say the least.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#62

Post by glangdale » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #45

glangdale wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides William S Burroughs wrote, at the end of "The Naked Lunch": "Statistically, the people who become addicted to morphine are those who have access to it: doctors, nurses, anyone in contact with black market sources. In Persia, where opium is sold without control in opium shops, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. So we should psychoanaly…

Alcoholism was extremely common in the past from where I come from. High society acceptance as long as the person didn't wreak too much havoc. It has been idolized in folklore songs, books and stories for children. Just part of the life. Kids drank sometimes too. Fast forward today - access to alcohol is even better (apart from minors). Yet society doesn't spiral into alcoholic madness apart form few fringe individua…

I'd hazard a guess that alcohol is a lot less addictive than heroin, although full-blown alcoholism and withdrawal is no joke.

I think we also have a lot of customs around alcohol to mitigate the level and constancy of drinking required to get addicted. Lots of jokes about "it's 5pm somewhere" or "the sun is over the yard arm", "no drinking on a school night", etc. I think there are generally enough taboos around day drinking or being constantly drunk that most people are nudged away from veering into physical addiction.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#63

Post by glangdale » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

rukuu001 wrote: post #60

glangdale wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides William S Burroughs wrote, at the end of "The Naked Lunch": "Statistically, the people who become addicted to morphine are those who have access to it: doctors, nurses, anyone in contact with black market sources. In Persia, where opium is sold without control in opium shops, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. So we should psychoanaly…

I think it’s very true that availability and norms will have a lot to do with drug use, and heroin often doesn’t give a second chance to people who are experimenting. However the with regard to the idea of ‘deep seated issues’ affecting addiction, I believe this is also true. We have communities here that provide the opportunity for perfect control of substances - they’re remote and access to them is strictly control…

I think you're taking the wrong point away, which is that the causal implication here runs from "wide availability of a substance -> addiction to that substance".

It doesn't say anything about whether a traumatized group will or won't take to substances; it just denies that all addiction is the result of trauma.

The other open question here - I assume you're referring to remote Indigenous communities in Australia - is whether people use substances strictly out of trauma or also out of boredom. The degree to which Indigenous lives are rendered both traumatic but also incredibly boring is shocking. If you've gotten a low quality education, don't have a job and your traditional way of life is no longer viable (it's quite likely you haven't been taught it), how are you going to pass the time?