72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings • Hacker News Board

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#451

Post by slg » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:18 PM UTC

hakfoo wrote: post #432

slg wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The two functions become obsolete at different rates The implication here is that the connectivity tech goes obsolete quicker than screen tech. That has traditionally been true, but has it been over the last 5 years or so? We don't even have to get into the specific display technology. Just from a feature perspective, there has been a lot of innovation in screens including 4k, HDR, and high refresh rates.

And the dominant broadcast standards are still 1080i 60Hz with no extra dynamic range. A large amount of new content is still targeting that. Aside from over-the-air, I suspect that most cable/satellite operators are offering that service level, at least without premium fees. Since the end of the digital-TV transition, the TV industry has been throwing a lot of stuff at the wall trying to find something that stuck. T…

Although the topic was about smart features so it isn't really OTA or cable we care about. Services like Netflix and Disney+ have embraced those new technologies. I don't think technology like 3D was ever embraced to this extent.

If you compare setups between a new TV with a few year old Roku, AppleTV, or whatever versus a few year old TV with a brand new streaming device, the setup with the new TV is likely going to be the superior option. In fact, Apple hasn't even released a new AppleTV since 2017. I have no idea if this will be a trend that continues, I just don't think "the streaming hardware becomes outdated quicker than the display hardware" is guaranteed to be true like we have assumed it was in the past.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#452

Post by Fiahil » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:20 PM UTC

I wish I could set a DNS redirect, however I have a Netgear router and the only option I know would be to install a custom router firmware. That's not something I have already done. Does someone have a good walkthrough and recommendations on the choice of firmware ?

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#453

Post by Spooky23 » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

iso947 wrote: post #409

nitrogen wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason any phone shouldn't be able to control any TV, except that IR ports are no longer popular on handheld devices. Back in the 90s there were wristwatches that could control any TV.

IR watches were always hilarious at school. I suspect in pubs too.

Every few years, some auditor would always flip out about IR data transfer. It would always get escalated because none of the frontline IT people had heard of it.

I’d always chuckle thinking of the boogeyman bad actor employee who decided to exfiltrate customer data to a circa 1999 palm pilot at 9600 baud via IR instead of the dozens of easier methods available.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#454

Post by asclepi » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:26 PM UTC

mrmanner wrote: post #397

protomyth wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. And that along with DoH is contributing to making my life a pain in the butt. How exactly do you folks who avoid our DHCP's DNS expect us to comply with legal filtering requirements? Also, what happens when your hard coded DNS servers are shutdown?

> How exactly do you folks who avoid our DHCP's DNS expect us to comply with legal filtering requirements? I would argue that this is more a problem with the legal requirements than with the equipment - the law(maker) has expectations you can’t reasonably fulfill. Doesn’t make your situation any better of course, the law is the law even when it’s impossible

Oh, we can fulfill them. We'll resort to TLS inspection and force you to trust our CA on your device if you want to continue accessing our corporate network. And now we get to see (almost) everything again, like in the "good old days," not just your DNS queries.

Clear text DNS is the ultimate compromise, a gentleman's agreement if you want, that benefits everyone. We can see just enough to filter what we are required to by law on a best-effort basis, but we never see what you are actually doing thanks to the prevalence of TLS. DoH just broke that agreement.

It's a sad example of how a privacy solution like DoH will eventually result in less privacy, at least in some environments. And I'm not even considering how DoH will be the excuse for totalitarian regimes to up their surveillance antics.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#455

Post by _skel » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:28 PM UTC

ecf wrote: post #247

supertrope wrote: post #237

Hard coding DNS removes a troubleshooting variable and decreases customer support load and return rates. Some ISPs hijack DNS to serve up search ads (when it’s not down or slow). Some routers are part of botnets so DNS is not to be trusted.

Perhaps companies should hire more talented customer service representatives who have a technical background instead of continuing to make their products shittier.

> Perhaps companies should hire more talented customer service representatives who have a technical background instead of continuing to make their products shittier.

Most people with technical skills would not settle for being customer service representatives when they can make far more money by putting those skills to work in technical roles.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#456

Post by bigphishy » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:28 PM UTC

Fiahil wrote: post #452

I wish I could set a DNS redirect, however I have a Netgear router and the only option I know would be to install a custom router firmware. That's not something I have already done. Does someone have a good walkthrough and recommendations on the choice of firmware ?

Well the first step would be to decide which router software you would like to use. There are a number of feature rich and secure opensource router software to choose from DDWRT/VyOS/pfsense etc.

I would recommend pfsense. Once you choose your preferred OS, search online for some tutorials on stackoverflow.

Alternatively, you can always stick a firewall in between your home network and your netgear, and do your filtering on that.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#457

Post by twblalock » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:30 PM UTC

mikeryan wrote: post #165

bitlevel wrote: post #89

They appear to not be trustworthy to be on our networks - so we should: 1. Not join them to our networks 2. Stop buying 'Smart TV's' 3. Get panels and a smart box that you can control I'm lucky enough to be able to direct ALL DNS through my router first. Nothing gets out without my say so. Not everyone has that capability, sadly, with home routers. The solution provided by the OP is a solid one - another would be to…

It’s going to be really difficult to not get a smart tv pretty soon. You can, of course not hook it up to the internet. But pretty much all of the current TVs (particularly the good ones with nice displays) are going to be “Smart”. One reason for the recent huge price drops on TVs is the ability to subsidize the price by selling viewing data. It’s the new normal in the CE world.

> One reason for the recent huge price drops on TVs is the ability to subsidize the price by selling viewing data. It’s the new normal in the CE world.

That's good though! If you are one of the people who wants a dumb TV, congratulations! You get to benefit from lower TV prices, subsidized by all the other people who are buying smart TVs for the smart features. Just don't connect your new TV to your network, don't try to use the smart features, and pretend it's a dumb TV. It works fine.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#458

Post by ouid » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:30 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #344

Bud wrote: post #261

This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.

Counterpoint: smart TVs are great. My LG has replaced almost every other thing that used to be in my media room. It is my streaming music box (I can target it for casting from my favorite iOS app, and I can use the interface on it for browsing my home network storage if I want). It has Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Hulu, Disney, Vudu, Google TV, and every other damn thing on it. It has voice search, so I just say the nam…

No, this is a stupid point. You should always prefer a factored product, no pun intended. All of these "problems" are easily solved by buying a dumb tv and hooking a computer up to it. That way, if you ever need a TV without a computer hooked up to it, you can just separate them.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#459

Post by Spooky23 » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:31 PM UTC

willis936 wrote: post #181

beisner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two classes of Google products: ones that are small user applications, and ones that are core infrastructure internally and externally. As far as I know, only the former have a reputation for being EOLed. DNS is the latter. Google’s RSS reader was the former.

The future is uncertain. Google has a history of canceling services and gives no signs of changing their behavior. Even if they made public acknowledgments hand waving “oh it’s these services not those other ones”, why would I fee any better? Google needs to spend a lot of time building trust. They don’t have it.

I have a coworker who is angry that Nissin Original Cup of Noodles eliminated the dried pea that was in the ramen. I think that happened a decade ago.

Very tragic, but things change. The nerd rage over Google Reader, etc is similar.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#460

Post by belorn » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #359

mattnewton wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercial signage tvs tend to be much more expensive and never really go on sale though. I can't even find out the price of this product without calling them to talk to a salesperson?

They’re more expensive because they need to make up the lost revenue from advertising and the likes. Or something like that. Of course, there’s also the simple thing of “enterprise stuff costs more for no reason.”

> They’re more expensive because they need to make up the lost revenue from advertising

If that is the case, shouldn't the product then be labeled that part of the price is subsidized by advertisement so that in a free market customers can make informed decisions about what products they buy and under what conditions? Otherwise there is a huge risk that manufacturers that add such hidden drawbacks can unfairly out compete others who do not, we get a lemon market.