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72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

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Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#421
post #261

This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.

I used to think like you then I realized is not that non smart TVs are better, but that no one is making smart TV non shitty.

Underpowered hardware running a non-optimized version of android...or worse.

If things weren’t done so badly, a unique interface would definitely be the way to go.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two classes of Google products: ones that are small user applications, and ones that are core infrastructure internally and externally. As far as I know, only the former have a reputation for being EOLed. DNS is the latter. Google’s RSS reader was the former.

The future is uncertain. Google has a history of canceling services and gives no signs of changing their behavior. Even if they made public acknowledgments hand waving “oh it’s these services not those other ones”, why would I fee any better? Google needs to spend a lot of time building trust. They don’t have it.

Any service they have Enterprise contracts for they are extremely unlikely to shut down.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#423
post #261

This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.

You're in luck. Buy a commercial TV, or a hospitality TV. For example: https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-tvs/lg-65ut640s0ua Other TV manufacturers make similar products.

All of the "key features" of this TV are what I want to avoid though. Maybe not as bad a consumer TV, but not that great either:

  Content Management/Group Management
  SuperSign Control Simple
  Network Management Protocol (SNMP) 
  Wake-on-LAN
  Crestron Connected® (Network Based Control)

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#424

I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. While sure there are companies explicitly doing this to avoid filtering, at least in my case it’s because a significant proportion of DHCP servers are configured to send DNS to your ISP, and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN r…

> and occasionally just highjack every single query to send you to a page saying you’re approaching your bandwidth quota It boggles my mind it's still a problem in some countries. Last time I saw this kind of notice it was in the nineties, and on a web server, definitely not on a client endpoint. People have had unlimited bandwidth for at least a decade now.

Comcast in my area has a 1TB/month limit. When I used their service I hit that limit nearly every month.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#425
post #261

This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.

Disagree. My 75 yo parents still have a dumb tv. They have different remotes for cable, sound, blue ray player ( some smart apps), fire tv, and apple tv. Their life is not easier because of this, they don't watch what they want when they want because it takes minutes to get to a different source. I know what I'm getting them for Christmas

You're getting them a chromecast?

Because that's what you should.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#426
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was simply that DNS was never an effective measure. Corporate operators don’t need it since they can configure proxies and install endpoint monitoring, but the people building untrustworthy IoT devices or malware can’t be relied upon to cooperate. I agree that the core problem here is blocking egress entirely – and that’d be a good area for home routers to add UI polish so you could easily allow your TV to h…

Well DNS has been a pragmatic measure for quite some time. I've definitely seen jailbreaks of embedded devices that start off by MITMing DNS to proxy all traffic. DoH is changing that, and I can see how that's annoying. > hit Samsung.com if there’s an update you need Why would you need an update? Updates are mainly necessary for security, which you don't need if the device isn't on the Internet. If the device doesn't…

> Why would you need an update? Updates are mainly necessary for security, which you don't need if the device isn't on the Internet.

You've never had a problem which was fixed by an update or something which added support for, say, a new model peripheral? I have, which is why I allowed for the possibility of wanting to do this on the schedule of your choosing but not the default case.

> I don't see how it's a losing game if you play it correctly. Fine grained policing of types of traffic is a losing game, but wholesale denying transit isn't. There is little difference between my network of tp-link bulbs and say a local modbus network.

I was thinking less narrowly than devices which never need to be online. A TV connected to other players can run entirely offline but there are many other things which legitimately need connectivity and there's no good way to prevent that. For example, think about a device like a Chromecast or Fire TV, or those Facebook video chat appliances — people buy those to stream content so the most you can do is force the vendor to send marketing stuff through the same endpoint they use for your content, and that's increasingly hard to filter (think how useful a “it goes to an IP in AWS. Block y/n?” prompt is). That's why I said it'll require a legal fix since a large fraction of the most invasive devices either already do or could trivially be modified to mix other data in with the traffic needed to function.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. My 75 yo parents still have a dumb tv. They have different remotes for cable, sound, blue ray player ( some smart apps), fire tv, and apple tv. Their life is not easier because of this, they don't watch what they want when they want because it takes minutes to get to a different source. I know what I'm getting them for Christmas

The right way to fix this is one single smart device, which is the only device connected to the dumb TV. The best of these types don't have a remote. They're controlled by a phone. If the intelligence is built into the TV then it cannot be updated or replaced -- so either there will again be multiple devices, or the TV will need to be replaced on a frequent basis. A smart TV makes the problem you describe even worse

Completely disagree on the lack of remote. Hitting a button on a remote is better UI than needing to unlock a phone and hope that it's actually connected to the streaming device (not always the case).

I think the new Chromecast is an admission from Google that the average person still wants a remote.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. My 75 yo parents still have a dumb tv. They have different remotes for cable, sound, blue ray player ( some smart apps), fire tv, and apple tv. Their life is not easier because of this, they don't watch what they want when they want because it takes minutes to get to a different source. I know what I'm getting them for Christmas

Get them an nvidia shield to attach to the dumb tv. Best of both worlds.

> Google Assistant built in

https://www.nvidia.com/en-au/shield/

Being internet connected is one thing (which it looks good for), but having an active mic in the room is a whole other level of "no thanks" from me.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#429
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but my point is that if you feel it's justified for your own network then you ought to expect every other network operator will feel that way about their network too. So before applying that mentality, it would be wise to consider what your experience would be like if all your neighbours, friends, colleagues etc also did that on their networks.

Is the point that I sometimes use these networks? Then I somewhat agree - I would set up a separate guest network without shenanigans for guests to use. This avoids both the ethical sketchiness and having to explain why their web browser is shouting at them

True, that could be a good compromise. Although there are still some disadvantages like creating an SPoF for yourself and increasing your attack surface (e.g. anyone who compromises your internal CA has access to all your encrypted connections)
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