EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home • Hacker News Board

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#521

Post by M2Ys4U » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

blibble wrote: post #496

M2Ys4U wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parliament can't propose new legislation (except in one or two very narrow areas provided for in the treaties), but it is a legislature. In nearly all cases (except again in narrow areas defined in the treaties) Parliament must pass the legislation first, before it goes to the Council. They then must agree any changes made by the Council. And yes, Parliament can - and almost always does - amend legislation as it goes…

Webster defines a legislature as a body of persons having the power to legislate the EU parliament cannot, so it's not a legislature

1) Parliament does legislate; and

2) Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#522

Post by CommanderData » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #356

I don't really need that. My work is my hobby and even before Corona things were intermixed completely. If someone pings me at 11pm from the US with a major issue and I have nothing better to do, Call of Duty can wait till tomorrow :P I like helping people and it helps relax my mind knowing that in the morning there hasn't been a major escalation building up over the last 8 hours. And they know I'm in Europe so they…

This is a strange argument. Have you taken into cosideration the vast majority of people have a busier life than you, with kids, elderly to support or sick relatives, wanting to expand beyond work?

How about employers that seize to take advantage of employees and having them work overtime rather employing more people?

Well done you are the 1 percent but your experiences aren't realistic and too idealistic to work in a general setting that is governed ultimately by greed and capitalism.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#523

Post by CommanderData » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 3:50 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #498

GekkePrutser wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely get 3-4x less than US in the EU country where I live. But who cares.. I like the low-pressure life here. Rents are lower than the US too. We have socialised healthcare, safe gun-free cities. That's worth a lot more than a number on a bank statement. I hear that in the US people will lose their healthcare when they lose a job and it could cost $1000 a month (which is more than my monthly rent)! Here it's…

> I hear that in the US people will lose their healthcare when they lose a job and it could cost $1000 a month (which is more than my monthly rent)! Here it's simply free. That brings a lot of peace of mind. That's not true in most of the states where people actually live. For example where I live in Maryland: https://www.marylandhealthconnection.gov/lost-your-job-you-c... > Yes, you have 60 days from the date of los…

Health insurance is not the same as universally free health care at the point of service / request for every citizen.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#524

Post by rayiner » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

CommanderData wrote: post #523

rayiner wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hear that in the US people will lose their healthcare when they lose a job and it could cost $1000 a month (which is more than my monthly rent)! Here it's simply free. That brings a lot of peace of mind. That's not true in most of the states where people actually live. For example where I live in Maryland: https://www.marylandhealthconnection.gov/lost-your-job-you-c... > Yes, you have 60 days from the date of los…

Health insurance is not the same as universally free health care at the point of service / request for every citizen.

Most countries with “universal healthcare” actually have some sort of “universal health insurance.” And it’s usually not free at the point of service. Finland for example has a user fees and co-pays at the point of service.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#525

Post by rayiner » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #503

rayiner wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hear that in the US people will lose their healthcare when they lose a job and it could cost $1000 a month (which is more than my monthly rent)! Here it's simply free. That brings a lot of peace of mind. That's not true in most of the states where people actually live. For example where I live in Maryland: https://www.marylandhealthconnection.gov/lost-your-job-you-c... > Yes, you have 60 days from the date of los…

> a family of 4, if you earn less than about $36,000 a year you qualify for Medicaid, which provides free healthcare, including prescription drugs. It provides free health insurance ; as Maryland Medicaid has cost-sharing requirements, it is not completely free health care . Prescription drugs, in particular, are not free for Medicaid recipients, though they are subsidized ($1-$3/prescription). https://www.kff.org/he…

Finland, the example used by the poster I was responding to, doesn’t have “completely free health care” either. Prescription drugs have a 50 euro deductible and 40-100% reimbursement rates depending on the situation: https://www.medaffcon.fi/en/market-access-finland/

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#526

Post by jahaja » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #524

CommanderData wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance is not the same as universally free health care at the point of service / request for every citizen.

Most countries with “universal healthcare” actually have some sort of “universal health insurance.” And it’s usually not free at the point of service. Finland for example has a user fees and co-pays at the point of service.

I think it's pretty relevant to post how large these Finnish fees and co-pays are compared to the US? It comes across as pretty dishonest to omit that the fee is almost symbolic in comparison. In Sweden it's like 200SEK (~$20) per visit and it seems to be 20 euro in Finland. And both fees have a cap for people needing a lot of care.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#527

Post by fastball » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

MereInterest wrote: post #520

fastball wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Right not to be murdered is right to life, which is exactly the same as freedom of speech. You have it unless someone else infringes on it. Those are very different from healthcare, which is not something you have unless it is infringed. Healthcare needs to be actively provided for you. When you can very clearly put all "rights" into one of the two buckets, it's pretty clear there is a real distinction.

The point I am trying to make is that all rights, positive or negative, require social structures to maintain and protect. There isn't a point in comparing to some Hobbesian wilderness as the blank canvas on which society is drawn, because there never has been such a situation. So long as there have been humans, there has been human society, because that is what makes us human. Therefore, pretending that rights start…

Although "do you have this thing when alone on island" is a good test for determining which sort of right you're talking about, that is not the reason to make a distinction.

The reason you make a distinction is because the two kinds need to be handled in different ways, and that is harder to do if you are constantly conflating them.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#528

Post by tptacek » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

freeone3000 wrote: post #506

rayiner wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people can’t live on their wages? What do they do? You realize that over 90% of US citizens have health insurance right?

Go into debt, mostly. Going off the 2019 numbers, so pre-pandemic: 10% of Americans have a negative net worth. 30% of americans are on means-tested benefits: Medicaid, foodstamps, TANF, WIC, welfare, or section 8. An additional 20% on top of that, or more than 50% of Americans, receive federal subsidies, so do not fully pay for their own insurance. Even for those who qualify as "with insurance", for the above specifi…

10% of Americans have negative net worth, but something like 8% of Germans have negative net worth, and Germany is a much smaller and more homogenous country. Is 10% a crazy high number? And look at Sweden's number. Is Sweden a basket case?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#529

Post by tptacek » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

jahaja wrote: post #526

rayiner wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries with “universal healthcare” actually have some sort of “universal health insurance.” And it’s usually not free at the point of service. Finland for example has a user fees and co-pays at the point of service.

I think it's pretty relevant to post how large these Finnish fees and co-pays are compared to the US? It comes across as pretty dishonest to omit that the fee is almost symbolic in comparison. In Sweden it's like 200SEK (~$20) per visit and it seems to be 20 euro in Finland. And both fees have a cap for people needing a lot of care.

The average US insurance copay for a doctor's office visit is, wait for it, $20.

Retail health care is not where the expense insanity in the US system kicks in.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#530

Post by jahaja » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 8:43 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #529

jahaja wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty relevant to post how large these Finnish fees and co-pays are compared to the US? It comes across as pretty dishonest to omit that the fee is almost symbolic in comparison. In Sweden it's like 200SEK (~$20) per visit and it seems to be 20 euro in Finland. And both fees have a cap for people needing a lot of care.

The average US insurance copay for a doctor's office visit is, wait for it, $20. Retail health care is not where the expense insanity in the US system kicks in.

What's your point? This is more or less the end of the road in Sweden and Finland with regards to fees/co-pays, there's no difference with regards to severity. Not sure why you guys are so eager to try a "it's actually pretty much the same as here" when it clearly requires an extremely superficial look.