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72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

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Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#331

Post by ARandomerDude »

Ecstatify wrote: post #315
ufmace wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a techie and a possible user, I agree that I'd like that feature. As someone who has/might work for companies building things like that, it sounds like a nightmare. It's a ton of design, testing, translation, validation, etc work to build the UI for adjusting optional settings. And it has to be maintained and tested through all future versions, redesigns, refactorings, etc. It's gonna be a tough sell to do it righ…

The point is I wouldn't have to change my DNS if they didn't inject adverts into my homepage. When I bought the TV there was no mention of Adverts included. Amazon sold two versions of their kindle, one with and one without ads, not an issue for me. As customer the pro/con relationship is clear. I get what I pay for. These ads slow down my TV, waste electricity, waste my time more importantly. It's not my problem as…

Most important, TV ads also may show scary or sexually suggestive material to my young children because the TV doesn't know how or when to be more discreet.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#332

Post by 1stranger »

stingraycharles wrote: post #309
Bud wrote: post #261

This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.

I own several smart TVs but use none of the smart functionality. They don’t even have internet. TV makers are horrible software developers, for the same reasons that mobile manufacturers were horrible mobile OS developers until Android came along. We have similar solutions for televisions in the form of Apple TV and Chromecast. I honestly feel I’m wasting my money when I’m buying a smart TV these days, but you just n…

I'm surprised to say but the latest Samsung interface and remote is quite good. Good enough I feel no need to put an Apple TV on it (which happens to have an awful remote).

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#333

Post by stevehawk »

idiot900 wrote: post #312
Bud wrote: post #261

This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.

You're in luck. Buy a commercial TV, or a hospitality TV. For example: https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-tvs/lg-65ut640s0ua Other TV manufacturers make similar products.

there's a lot of software in that "dumb" tv

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#334

Post by criddell »

stingraycharles wrote: post #309
Bud wrote: post #261

This isn't difficult: TVs should not be "smart". TVs should be incredibly dumb. They should be screens for displaying stuff. That's it. Nothing else. No network connection of any kind, no apps, no software beyond that necessary to do basic setup of how that screen works: brightness, input selection, etc.

I own several smart TVs but use none of the smart functionality. They don’t even have internet. TV makers are horrible software developers, for the same reasons that mobile manufacturers were horrible mobile OS developers until Android came along. We have similar solutions for televisions in the form of Apple TV and Chromecast. I honestly feel I’m wasting my money when I’m buying a smart TV these days, but you just n…

Smart TVs often cost less than dumb TVs. If you don't connect your TV to the internet then you are being subsidized by all the people that do.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#335

Post by gumby »

knubie wrote: post #289
dageshi wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine if you want a tv like that you can find one. A lot of buyers quite like smart tv's I imagine.

It’s actually pretty difficult to find a TV like that. Most stores don’t even have “dumb” TVs.

This comment has a link to one https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25316823

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#336

Post by ARandomerDude »

CraneWorm wrote: post #22

Just don't buy smart TV, or any of that IoT crap. It is possible to buy 58 inch dumb TV, connect that to a machine you own.

Or if the TV permits, go ahead and get the smart TV if it has the other features you want but never connect it to the internet.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#338

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

gnu8 wrote: post #317
acdha wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll note that I mentioned a proxy. That’s why: you need to force all traffic through a proxy you control or you’re just hoping that a client doesn’t use hard-coded IPs or an outside API of some source. If your network allows the client to send traffic to port 443 anywhere, any blocking is on the honor system.

My question here is how are you going to install your root certificate on a $300 smart TV? Or, if that is not required because the TV does not verify DoH certificates, how bad is that for security (which we already know is awful on these devices)?

Well, it’d just block internet access there. I wonder if it’s possible to push a root to an Apple TV

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#339

Post by heavyset_go »

jon-wood wrote: post #10

I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. While sure there are companies explicitly doing this to avoid filtering, at least in my case it’s because a significant proportion of DHCP servers are configured to send DNS to your ISP, and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN r…

> Just be aware DNS over HTTPS is a thing now, and while the devices I’m responsible for aren’t going to try and evade your redirects, the companies that are trying to make sure ads get delivered will absolutely switch to DoH which will be much more difficult to work around.

I've been running PiHole-like software on my network for a few years now. A couple of years ago, it would block over 40% of traffic consistently. I never saw ads, and it was nice.

In the last year, blocked traffic has dropped to about 15%, and I'm increasingly getting ads on my phone and Chromecast despite tunneling my traffic through my ad-blocked network and blocking Google's DNS at the network level.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#340

Post by bosswipe »

jon-wood wrote: post #10

I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. While sure there are companies explicitly doing this to avoid filtering, at least in my case it’s because a significant proportion of DHCP servers are configured to send DNS to your ISP, and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN r…

> DNS over HTTPS is a thing now

I'm one of those "idiots" whose been whistling in the wind against encryption of everything and all kinds of security lockdowns and it's because of this sort of thing. The theoretical threat of someone sniffing my traffic is just not a concern to me compared to the very real and increasing threat of handing all control of my computing to centralized user-hostile powers.

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