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72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

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Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#41

Post by znpy »

jon-wood wrote: post #10

I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. While sure there are companies explicitly doing this to avoid filtering, at least in my case it’s because a significant proportion of DHCP servers are configured to send DNS to your ISP, and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN r…

> Just be aware DNS over HTTPS is a thing now, and while the devices I’m responsible for aren’t going to try and evade your redirects, the companies that are trying to make sure ads get delivered will absolutely switch to DoH which will be much more difficult to work around.

I wonder who's the first sponsor for that thing, dns-over-https...

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#42

Post by dspillett »

tga wrote: post #37
mojo982 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? I’m still holding onto my TV from 2014 because it doesn’t have “smart” functionality. Every time I look at new ones I can’t find good dumb ones.

Aren’t all smart TVs dumb if you don’t connect them to the internet? I wouldn’t be surprised if manufacturers start selling TVs that need to be activated online before first use, but I don’t know of any that do that already.

Mine quite happily works as a dumb TV without a connection, and I know many others who do the same. Though I hear stories of TVs being annoying to use without a connection (timing out waiting for a server response that can never come, before falling back to an ad free menu, or just constantly nagging, even while content is playing, about the lack of connectivity).

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#43

Post by metiscus »

aaomidi wrote: post #26
stiray wrote: post #17

[flagged]

Because soon you won't have a choice with this. These changes are always gradual until they become ubiquitous. Some changes are stopped in their tracks due to legislation.

This is becoming an example of frog boiling in action. The usual retort to mentions of frog boiling is that the frogs jump out but in this case, it's just bigger pots of boiling water all the way down.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#45

Post by black3r »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #18

Another step in the silly device manufacturer / device owner arms-race. As long as people keep rewarding device manufacturers who treat owners as tenants it will progress. I wish people would just stop buying this garbage. They won't, though-- they see the features but not the down-side. The next step will be hard-coded DoH server IPs. Sly owners will NAT those to a transparent MiTM proxy. Then device manufacturers w…

> It will put a hard "expiration date" on the device's functionality when a link in the PKI chain expires.

If you're certificate pinning an IP address for use with your own software, you can just create a self-signed cert with expiration date set to 2999 or some commonly ridiculous date you don't expect your devices will live to.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#46

Post by overscore »

mojo982 wrote: post #30
CraneWorm wrote: post #22

Just don't buy smart TV, or any of that IoT crap. It is possible to buy 58 inch dumb TV, connect that to a machine you own.

Is it? I’m still holding onto my TV from 2014 because it doesn’t have “smart” functionality. Every time I look at new ones I can’t find good dumb ones.

If you don't need any "TV" features such as a tuner or speakers, you might consider using a monitor. I use a 32" 4k monitor as my "TV".

In my case, anything with a TV tuner requires an expensive license, so that's another motivating factor, but whenever I use someone else's "smart TV", I'm always relieved that I don't have to deal with glacial UIs and injected ads.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#47

Post by wang_li »

fingerlocks wrote: post #20
ugexe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if every single piece of hardware or software followed this one crazy trick the world would be better because some people at a tech company wouldn’t have to field as many support questions?

Yes, support is supremely expensive. This is especially true in the hardware IoT space under discussion. Some large fraction of any semi-successful hardware company will exist to field a constant onslaught of support emails, handling returns, warranties, and social media. It’s a big money sink. Margins are already razor thin in hardware, so yeah anything that can be done to reduce your support costs is welcomed.

> Yes, support is supremely expensive.

I agree. I have support costs too. Which is why every company that sells a product with a hard coded DNS server configured but doesn't advertise said aspect prominently in all advertising, so I can know to avoid their intentionally defective product, should pay me $10000 for the time I wasted buying their product, discovering their product is secretly and intentionally broken, and then return their product.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#49

Post by willis936 »

fingerlocks wrote: post #20
ugexe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if every single piece of hardware or software followed this one crazy trick the world would be better because some people at a tech company wouldn’t have to field as many support questions?

Yes, support is supremely expensive. This is especially true in the hardware IoT space under discussion. Some large fraction of any semi-successful hardware company will exist to field a constant onslaught of support emails, handling returns, warranties, and social media. It’s a big money sink. Margins are already razor thin in hardware, so yeah anything that can be done to reduce your support costs is welcomed.

It’s a gamble, not a guarantee. What happens when your hard coded DNS is not available?

The more convincing narrative is that setting custom DNS decreases ad revenue and cuts into growth.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#50

Post by alecco »

mojo982 wrote: post #30
CraneWorm wrote: post #22

Just don't buy smart TV, or any of that IoT crap. It is possible to buy 58 inch dumb TV, connect that to a machine you own.

Is it? I’m still holding onto my TV from 2014 because it doesn’t have “smart” functionality. Every time I look at new ones I can’t find good dumb ones.

Try something like Samsung Signage Displays. Or look for "dumb-tv" category in Amazon and other sites.
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