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72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

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Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#21

Post by sokoloff »

ugexe wrote: post #14
noname120 wrote: post #5

> some of these devices are using a sneaky tactic to bypass your PiHole entirely I don't think that it's malevolent on their part. Lots of ISP DNS are crappy. Hardcoding a reasonably reliable one saves them a lot of frustration and unnecessary technical support.

So if every single piece of hardware or software followed this one crazy trick the world would be better because some people at a tech company wouldn’t have to field as many support questions?

Every contact to that tech company has on the other side a frustrated customer. I care about them.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#23

Post by praptak »

rightbyte wrote: post #15
jon-wood wrote: post #10

I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. While sure there are companies explicitly doing this to avoid filtering, at least in my case it’s because a significant proportion of DHCP servers are configured to send DNS to your ISP, and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN r…

What DNS do you hardcode? Google's? Or do you advice the use to set it up himself? I am very suspicious of the push for https and the like. I feel it is mainly about hiding the payload from me not any third party.

DNS over secure channels is actually good - it limits bad behavior by ISPs.

The problem of shitty devices on your private network is a different one.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#24

Post by t0astbread »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #19
rightbyte wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What DNS do you hardcode? Google's? Or do you advice the use to set it up himself? I am very suspicious of the push for https and the like. I feel it is mainly about hiding the payload from me not any third party.

You're right to be suspicious. The DNS-over-HTTPS model favors those who run the servers (because they get exclusive access to monetizable end user name resolution data) and those who control the resolvers. You might control the resolver on your personal computer (for now). You probably don't control it on your phone. You most likely won't control it on your embedded devices.

The root evil here is that you can't change the root certificates in such devices. Even if you controlled its DNS, the device could still just be programmed to fail if it doesn't reach its analytics/ad/whatever server.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#25

Post by MayeulC »

jon-wood wrote: post #10

I’m responsible for a bunch of IoT hardware, and every firmware spec I write includes a note on not using the DNS servers provided via DHCP. While sure there are companies explicitly doing this to avoid filtering, at least in my case it’s because a significant proportion of DHCP servers are configured to send DNS to your ISP, and ISP provided DNS is almost universally terrible. They’ll ignore TTLs, rewrite NXDOMAIN r…

How do you deal with NAT64? It's a real thing with some consumer ISPs.

I can see myself using it as well, maybe even just to see which devices don't use DNS.

Here's another idea: generate a unique IPv6 address per DNS request, route them to the correct destination, filter other IPs. Not really scalable, but usable on small networks/VLANs.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#27

Post by choeger »

We need legislation against this kind of crap. It is only a matter of time until these "smart" devices share childporn or host darknet drug shops.

Let's face it, the devs implementing these devices run a scrum process, features get stacked upon features and no one cares about, let alone understands the security of the whole tool stack. It is only a matter of time before we have a bot net of smart tvs and roombas. And network owners will be held responsible.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#28

Post by rmrfstar »

praptak wrote: post #23
rightbyte wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What DNS do you hardcode? Google's? Or do you advice the use to set it up himself? I am very suspicious of the push for https and the like. I feel it is mainly about hiding the payload from me not any third party.

DNS over secure channels is actually good - it limits bad behavior by ISPs. The problem of shitty devices on your private network is a different one.

At this point it is really tough to find devices that don't leak data like a sieve.

I recently bought a car, and could not find one without a cellular modem and microphones. Removing the modem voids the warranty. The period where you can opt out is mostly over.

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#29

Post by Ecstatify »

noname120 wrote: post #5

> some of these devices are using a sneaky tactic to bypass your PiHole entirely I don't think that it's malevolent on their part. Lots of ISP DNS are crappy. Hardcoding a reasonably reliable one saves them a lot of frustration and unnecessary technical support.

It is because they don’t give you the option to change it. Set the default to what ever you want, but give me the user who bought the goddamn thing the option to configure it how I see fit. You think TV companies are injecting adverts into peoples TV home screens for their benefit, I don’t see a big sticker on the box when I buy the TV “Ads Integrated Directly into Device”

Re: 72% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles hardcode DNS settings

#30

Post by mojo982 »

CraneWorm wrote: post #22

Just don't buy smart TV, or any of that IoT crap. It is possible to buy 58 inch dumb TV, connect that to a machine you own.

Is it? I’m still holding onto my TV from 2014 because it doesn’t have “smart” functionality. Every time I look at new ones I can’t find good dumb ones.
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