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This is Real, That's Not

streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com

161–170 of 364 posts

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for nine months we reduced homelessness and structural health problems to single digit or less and it almost certainly saved money. > That's the truly amazing thing: the net budget effect on federal and state funded interventions was probably better, and they STILL unwound the programmes. According to the treasurer of Victoria, they allocated $150 million budget to provide this accommodation for 2000 people. Th…

There are definitely not 20k+ Victorians out on the streets every night. That figure almost certainly includes the vast majority of homeless people who are sleeping on mates' couches etc.

Thing is, if you make a reasonable service available, "the vast majority of homeless people who are sleeping on mates' couches" will be competing for the same spots with those who actually are sleeping on the streets otherwise.

If some sort of safety net is available, then some people who'd otherwise find some solution to pay rent - whether it's going over their heads in payday loans or getting into petty crime or resorting to prostitution or some other way - some of them will choose to actually use that safety net instead. So the demand for that safety net if it's available should be expected to be larger than the number of people who "fell through" in the absence of it.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived and worked in many different countries (including America and Germany), and there seem to be two main causes of homelessness: economic hardship and mental illness. In Germany, I've only seen homelessness due to mental illness, because the bureaucracy in the social programs causes too much friction for them to use it with decent success. There are organizations that help people navigate the mazes and paperw…

I think in places in San Francisco, it might not just be "inequality", but also homeless people flocking to places with spare money and mild climate. Why else would you choose to be homeless in one of the most expensive places on earth?

https://www.kqed.org/news/11721460/why-do-these-4-myths-abou...

this myth gets repeated and has no basis in reality. people in every city that offer any kind of service for the poor think that this attracts poor people. i guess it’s easier to believe that people are choosing to cheat society than society failed to provide for them

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#163
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they're risk based. It's just that all the risk is borne by the borrower, not the lender. Take out a bunch of loans and can't get a job? Too bad! You still have to pay your loans anyway. Your risk didn't work out. > 18-year-olds don't have credit history, and most of them don't have income either. Yes, this is exactly why in every other normal circumstance, lending them money is a bad idea. College used to…

> College used to be something where you could reasonably pay tuition with a decent summer job. That was only true for a few decades in the late 20th century, due to massive state subsidies covered by taxpayers, many of whom did not get to go to college themselves. I guarantee you that college will not get cheaper if the student loan money dries up. The only thing that will change, is that only rich kids will get to…

And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decades at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. I don't know why you're married to this concept as the end-all, be-all only option for education financing, especially when there is an endless flood of people saying how it personally harmed them.

There are absolutely not enough foreign students to keep shoring up US universities. Many mid and lower tier schools are already experiencing cash flow problems. Many should and probably will close.

There's no law of nature that demands you have to spend $40k a year to have someone tell you what Hamlet is about just so you can be qualified to come up with a new marketing campaign for a soft drink or whatever you end up doing. Most jobs don't require anything you learn in college, so why are we forcing kids into a lifetime of indentured servitude just so they can get a degree?

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#164

Interesting writing and perspective, though something about it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy. I think it's the amount of mind reading that the author projects on everyone. The author writes as if she understands other people better than they understand themselves. Everyone gets taken down a notch with some mind reading from the author, such as the forum member who had "mommy issues" to the conclusion that the primar…

MeFi's apparent niceness/decorum is what makes its negativity so cutting and icy. I have never seen flamewars, however infrequent, as bitter and contemptuous as I have seen there.

yeah, MeFi is the Babylon of internet American liberalism, and by "American liberals" I mean people that think to be left wing and progressive, while in fact they are right-wing and classist, but with good education and decorum.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for nine months we reduced homelessness and structural health problems to single digit or less and it almost certainly saved money. > That's the truly amazing thing: the net budget effect on federal and state funded interventions was probably better, and they STILL unwound the programmes. According to the treasurer of Victoria, they allocated $150 million budget to provide this accommodation for 2000 people. Th…

There are definitely not 20k+ Victorians out on the streets every night. That figure almost certainly includes the vast majority of homeless people who are sleeping on mates' couches etc.

Sure, but those people who sleep on friends couches, or in homeless shelters, or in boarding houses occasionally are all people who sleep rough sometimes. Gathering statistics on this is not the easiest thing to do, but I’ve read more than once that about two thirds of Australia’s homeless sleep rough regularly. So while there might not be 25,000 people sleeping on the streets of Victoria on any given night, a good portion of that number will find themselves doing it often enough.

Meaning if you want to keep those people from sleeping out in public places, then you really do need to provide all of them with housing, and also that you certainly can’t provide only 2000 of them with temporary housing and then claim that you’ve solved homelessness (even only temporarily).

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#166
Dear Doreen (hopefully you spot this), thank you for an amazing article -- and also congrats on your recent first pull request, no small feat! :)

I have a question for you; I've been hoping for an opportunity to ask a person who could answer this genuinely (something that I could not guarantee by asking just anyone off the street).

What is the best way for someone like me (a non-homeless person who wants to help), to actually help either a particular homeless person or the homeless community in general, in a way that makes an actual positive difference in their lives?

I am completely disenfranchised with the various charities out there purporting to help homeless people; I think most are shameless money-grabbing schemes. E.g., one of the most popular charities in the UK rakes in a boatload of money due to their catchy name, but once you get to the gist of what they actually do, it's basically "advice over the phone", which could have been done much more effectively as a free subreddit frequented by actual homeless users. My suspicions that they are largely worthless were confirmed by my wife, who said she once called them (before we met) at a time of need, and they were full of generalities and not of much practical use with regard to the actual problem she was facing.

I have now spotted a charity that sounds legit (shelterfromthestorm) and now happily donate to that ... but even then I'm not sure, and it feels odd to be helping out a London-specific charity when I'm not a Londoner and there's homeless people right outside my doorstep.

On the other hand, while I generally try to help out people in the street, that too typically doesn't feel like the best thing I could be doing. I know that at a certain level it's none of my business what people do with the money I give them, and that everyone's got their own demons to fight, but realistically I'd like to have some control in knowing my money was put to good use and actually made a positive difference to someone, rather than what I fear is more likely to happen many times, which is reinforcing negative behaviours/circumstances, and learned helplessness in people who could be helped in more substantial ways.

It also doesn't help that (understandably) there are a lot of scammers embedded in this community -- I've lost count of the number of times someone attempted to shake my hand first, and while still shaking would say they missed their London-Glasgow bus, and could I give them money for another ticket, or some equally frustrating story like that. The most disillusioned I've seen my wife was when she fell for a similar story and gave money for a very expensive ticket to a person -- I made her wait outside the train station for the next five minutes to prove this person would intentionally miss their train, and come out asking for ticket money again (I was right).

I find myself that I volunteer to buy food for people a lot - especially when they're stationed next to supermarkets. Which is nice in terms of ensuring some of the above "guarantees", and the people who want food are generally very grateful for it ... but I have a feeling that food is probably not necessarily the most pressing problem for most homeless people. And now with this pandemic, I haven't been out of my house for a while, so this face-to-face interaction has also gone.

Once in a while one entertains the romanticised thought of befriending a particular local homeless person they see often, or even offering a room, or a place to shower or shave, etc, but realistically this is feel-good fantasy land; as soon as you get even within an inch of a person, both their survival instincts and yours start ringing loud alarm bells, and you realise very quickly that it's not a good idea.

So, (and sorry for the long rant), as someone who's lived all this from the other side, and knows what kind of help they could have used most at the time, and realistically what form this could take in order to work at a practical level ... what would you advise?

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#167
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> College used to be something where you could reasonably pay tuition with a decent summer job. That was only true for a few decades in the late 20th century, due to massive state subsidies covered by taxpayers, many of whom did not get to go to college themselves. I guarantee you that college will not get cheaper if the student loan money dries up. The only thing that will change, is that only rich kids will get to…

And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decades at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. I don't know why you're married to this concept as the end-all, be-all only option for education financing, especially when there is an endless flood of people saying how it personally harmed them. Th…

[deleted]

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#168
post #78

I hope my comment doesn't sound tone-deaf or ignorant but this is something I have thought about for a while. As I was watching @lisper's movie "grace of god"[1] and heard the phrase "convince myself that it could never happen to me" (becoming homeless), I started thinking, is this a more American-centric problem? What I mean by that is, can the lack of a social safety net in the US cause a much higher rate of homele…

This is exactly my thought while I was reading the text. I live in Brazil and while we certainly have homeless and poverty here, this specific situation of someone with skill and education becoming homeless is something ultra rare, to te point that I never saw, hears or read of anyone in this situation. Even very modest people earning little money are able to get a roof over their heads. The usual case of homelessness here is caused by addiction and mental problems. In contrast I've seen lots of stories in the US about capable, healthy and sane people living in the streets for some time and most of the time the justification is indebtness (in this text the writer mentions his study loans). Is the average american more in debt than the citizens in the rest of the world? If so, isn't this situation a economic risk for the US? As something like COVID crisis could easily throw people.withouy any savings to the streets in a heartbeat?

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#169
post #105

Under the medically justified urgency of covid, Victoria took a significant number of homeless rough sleeping people (as they are called here in australia) into some kind of housing. Queensland did the same using surplus student purpose built dense housing. I'm not going to pretend this "solved the problems" but I am told a number of the less intractable cases got put into a better situation,simply having secure shel…

> But for nine months we reduced homelessness and structural health problems to single digit or less and it almost certainly saved money. > That's the truly amazing thing: the net budget effect on federal and state funded interventions was probably better, and they STILL unwound the programmes. According to the treasurer of Victoria, they allocated $150 million budget to provide this accommodation for 2000 people. Th…

That's a forward commitment for 18 months of secure housing and 24 months of complete support for mental and physical health and welfare. Its not the amount spent to take 2,000 people off the streets right now.

Re: This is Real, That's Not

#170
post #4

Fantastic read! Always remember that "money doesn't buy happiness" is the shibboleth for people who always had money. Bring that up next time someone says it. Fun reaction guaranteed. I like to follow it up with my favorite slavic saying: "Sure money won't make you happy, but crying in a Ferrari is much nicer than on the bus"

Today I learnt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth

While I agree that "money doesn't buy happiness" is over simplistic. The opposite - "money buys happiness" - also is. An expat in Angola recently told me that what surprised him the most was how happy poor people were. People without nothing (material) not even the certainty of having a dinner everyday.

A less simplistic (but still simplistic) take on this is: "Comparison is the thief of joy".

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