Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy' • Hacker News Board

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#31

Post by wyldfire » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 5:22 AM UTC

wahern wrote: post #27

mathieuh wrote: post #4

I was on heroin for a few years and I live in the UK. I had managed to keep it hidden for maybe 18 months but eventually it become obvious and my mother started organising help. Within a week we had some people from the local drugs outreach charity turn up at the house with free Naloxone IM kits and they trained us how to use them. A couple of weeks after that I was assigned a counsellor whom I would meet regularly a…

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides, All crime is a consequence of deep-rooted personal issues.[1] Part of the purpose of making something a crime is to put somebody on notice about when personal choices are likely to result in intolerable injury to the public and, hopefully, induce them to reassess their needs and expectations, including recognizing their need for help. And that's t…

I think you bring up a good point. So what if the consequence for these crimes (any crimes?) was compulsory treatment? That needn't include being imprisoned except for where it's absolutely warranted.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#32

Post by psychometry » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 5:28 AM UTC

deelowe wrote: post #10

Do we keep getting this wrong because of perverse incentives, malice, or just plain stupidity? Was it not expected that clamping down on legal opioids would cause an illegal market to flourish? We've been doing this sort of thing for decades now. We know what's going to happen. No need to do research. There's a mountain of empirical data. What alternatives were considered? There has to be a better approach.

The kinds of politicians these uneducated, white, rural people are voting for are surely not the kind to push for compassionate, evidence-based solutions to the addictions ruining their communities. They have only themselves to blame for their towns' blight.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#33

Post by gumby » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 5:28 AM UTC

mathieuh wrote: post #4

I was on heroin for a few years and I live in the UK. I had managed to keep it hidden for maybe 18 months but eventually it become obvious and my mother started organising help. Within a week we had some people from the local drugs outreach charity turn up at the house with free Naloxone IM kits and they trained us how to use them. A couple of weeks after that I was assigned a counsellor whom I would meet regularly a…

> Heroin addiction is a public health problem, ... The fact that you have to pay for treatment in parts of the US is unbelievable to me.

> Having access to naloxone and injection kits for free surely saved me from getting a blood-borne infection, and the counselling from the charity really helped.

Naloxone and Suboxone are so tightly controlled in the US that many addicts who want to get clean go back to heroin to self medicate (and many die). Why? The DEA bars any kind of relaxation and the private prison companies and the prison guard and police unions fund candidates that oppose any sympathy for addicts.

It’s capitalism all the way down.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#34

Post by Spooky23 » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 6:45 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #31

wahern wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides, All crime is a consequence of deep-rooted personal issues.[1] Part of the purpose of making something a crime is to put somebody on notice about when personal choices are likely to result in intolerable injury to the public and, hopefully, induce them to reassess their needs and expectations, including recognizing their need for help. And that's t…

I think you bring up a good point. So what if the consequence for these crimes (any crimes?) was compulsory treatment? That needn't include being imprisoned except for where it's absolutely warranted.

My former coworker was a recovering addict who was also a addiction counselor. He perspective was that the addict has to want to be there for anything to happen.

If you cigarettes from a smoker or booze from a drunk and the outcome isn’t walking away from the addiction.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#35

Post by Spooky23 » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 6:45 AM UTC

titanomachy wrote: post #16

mathieuh wrote: post #4

I was on heroin for a few years and I live in the UK. I had managed to keep it hidden for maybe 18 months but eventually it become obvious and my mother started organising help. Within a week we had some people from the local drugs outreach charity turn up at the house with free Naloxone IM kits and they trained us how to use them. A couple of weeks after that I was assigned a counsellor whom I would meet regularly a…

It's good that you can get all that sterile equipment to inject safely. To me the weird bit is that you're necessarily using it to inject very non-sterile heroin with unknown adulterants that you've bought from a (by definition) criminal enterprise. I hope that at some point doctors are able to provide opiates for addicts as further harm reduction. I know there's been some emergency COVID policies put in place in par…

The big risk is sharing needles.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#36

Post by anovikov » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 6:50 AM UTC

wahern wrote: post #27

mathieuh wrote: post #4

I was on heroin for a few years and I live in the UK. I had managed to keep it hidden for maybe 18 months but eventually it become obvious and my mother started organising help. Within a week we had some people from the local drugs outreach charity turn up at the house with free Naloxone IM kits and they trained us how to use them. A couple of weeks after that I was assigned a counsellor whom I would meet regularly a…

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides, All crime is a consequence of deep-rooted personal issues.[1] Part of the purpose of making something a crime is to put somebody on notice about when personal choices are likely to result in intolerable injury to the public and, hopefully, induce them to reassess their needs and expectations, including recognizing their need for help. And that's t…

>All crime is a consequence of deep-rooted personal issues

That is a blanket statement. Yes, i agree with the most crime being like this, and especially almost all or maybe all violent crime, but quite some crime is completely rational. I would commit a crime if it provided a clear benefit outweighing the risks, it's OK to do - it's government's job to organise laws and enforcement system in a way the set of "rational" committable crimes is minimised.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#37

Post by glangdale » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 7:03 AM UTC

FruityCoconut wrote: post #3

“Nobody cares, because of who is affected” My respect to the author for this careful and courageous article. Writing about the problems affecting working class white men in today's climate might warrant censure in some circles. To the matter at hand, one of my concerns is that the Sackler family will enjoy long, peaceful lives. I hope justice intervenes.

You've got to be kidding me. I don't think I've ever seen such a sudden wave of compassion for the victims of drug addiction in the US before the recent opioid epidemic - my jaw was on the floor seeing the number of politicians, including conservative ones, who started embracing the language of "sickness" rather than "moral failure" for drug addiction at this time. Compare and contrast the reportage on the crack epidemic.

To be clear, I'm not calling for a return to the bad old days, but it's in incredibly poor taste to pretend that there's some kind of conspiracy against "working class white men". Sure, we can weasel out with "in some circles" - I'm sure there's some nutter somewhere who thinks somehow this is all just desserts for being white or voting for Trump, etc. But that's a fringe viewpoint.

re Sackler family, although I wish them long, peaceful lives, I would like a considerable portion of those long, peaceful lives to be spent in some sort of Federal facility.

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#38

Post by glangdale » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 7:17 AM UTC

mathieuh wrote: post #4

I was on heroin for a few years and I live in the UK. I had managed to keep it hidden for maybe 18 months but eventually it become obvious and my mother started organising help. Within a week we had some people from the local drugs outreach charity turn up at the house with free Naloxone IM kits and they trained us how to use them. A couple of weeks after that I was assigned a counsellor whom I would meet regularly a…

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides

William S Burroughs wrote, at the end of "The Naked Lunch":

"Statistically, the people who become addicted to morphine are those who have access to it: doctors, nurses, anyone in contact with black market sources. In Persia, where opium is sold without control in opium shops, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. So we should psychoanalyze several million Persians to find out what deep conflicts and anxieties have driven them to the use of opium? I think not."

Similarly, historical opium addiction in China was largely a function of supply.

I think there's a bit from column A, a bit from column B, and WSB's scoffing at the idea of "psychoanalyzing Persians" does seem a bit... dated (what a concept, that a large number of people might have anxieties and deep conflicts). And I whole-heartedly agree with you about the "health problem not a crime" issue.

However, I often think about that remark of WSB's in connection with some of the more radical ideas about legalization (as opposed to decriminalization/depenalization).

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#39

Post by gambiting » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 7:22 AM UTC

mathieuh wrote: post #4

I was on heroin for a few years and I live in the UK. I had managed to keep it hidden for maybe 18 months but eventually it become obvious and my mother started organising help. Within a week we had some people from the local drugs outreach charity turn up at the house with free Naloxone IM kits and they trained us how to use them. A couple of weeks after that I was assigned a counsellor whom I would meet regularly a…

You have to pay to give birth in the US, like the government doesn't even care about the most fundamental act of creating more citizens, so not funding heroin treatments is no surprising in the slightest

Re: Down Here, They Sometimes Call It 'Boy'

#40

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 05, 2020, 7:27 AM UTC

titanomachy wrote: post #16

mathieuh wrote: post #4

I was on heroin for a few years and I live in the UK. I had managed to keep it hidden for maybe 18 months but eventually it become obvious and my mother started organising help. Within a week we had some people from the local drugs outreach charity turn up at the house with free Naloxone IM kits and they trained us how to use them. A couple of weeks after that I was assigned a counsellor whom I would meet regularly a…

It's good that you can get all that sterile equipment to inject safely. To me the weird bit is that you're necessarily using it to inject very non-sterile heroin with unknown adulterants that you've bought from a (by definition) criminal enterprise. I hope that at some point doctors are able to provide opiates for addicts as further harm reduction. I know there's been some emergency COVID policies put in place in par…

[deleted]