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We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

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Re: We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

#21
> There have been a few high-profile cases, such as the college student who churned out AI-generated self-help and productivity advice on a blog, which went viral.

This is how much of the internet has felt for a long time. After this nugget, I now wonder if Vox is just a model trained on Piketty and Tumblr.

edit: Also not sold on the CO2 argument. Too many variables! Nerds will calculate and re-calculate such things, with the result jumping all over the place, swearing that they've gotten it right--this time! No humility, in spite of the odds.

Re: We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

#22

I was a little disappointed in the quality of this research. I can see where Google is coming from. Some of these topics seem regurgitated (e.g. bias in online text) and some are just irrelevant (CO2 emissions). Training language models does not contribute in any meaningful way to global CO2 emissions. Overall not a very strong paper in contrast to the other reactions I've been seeing online.

> I was little disappointed in the quality of this research

But the research is not even published yet

Re: We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

#24
I have a genuine question:

If a person of color (I am myself non-white) is not performing, what does it take to fire them without the entire world playing the race card on you?

Are we creating a society that makes it impossible to fire a person of color? You know there are bad apples in every race, right? How do we handle such scenarios? Seems unfair to me, myself being a person of color - I don't want the world to treat me like some kind of a hero for being non-white / minority. I want fairness and it is frankly offensive.

I am not pleased with the way we're treating each other. It's supposed to be equal opportunity.

I also want us to have scientific discussion about gender differences (backed by research) and other difficult conversations. Nature doesn't give a fuck about any of this - if our goal is to uncover the way mother nature works, we're going to have to meet difficult truths and not be afraid of it.

Re: We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

#25

Is this what esteemed PhD AI ethicists spend their time on? It sounds like a useless grad school paper. I think much less of everyone now.

The mistake was expecting much from “PhD AI ethicist” - a title Orwell accidentally left out.

Re: We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

#26
> An AI model taught to view racist language as normal is obviously bad. The researchers, though, point out a couple of more subtle problems. One is that shifts in language play an important role in social change; the MeToo and Black Lives Matter movements, for example, have tried to establish a new anti-sexist and anti-racist vocabulary. An AI model trained on vast swaths of the internet won’t be attuned to the nuances of this vocabulary and won’t produce or interpret language in line with these new cultural norms.

This is a pretty superficial take on what is an extremely interesting sociological topic. (To be clear, I’m referring to the article, not the underlying paper which we don’t have.) Obviously just because social movements “have tried to establish ... vocabulary” doesn’t meant that vocabulary has become a “new cultural norm.” Plenty of such efforts end up being cultural dead-ends.

Take for example a term like “LatinX.” This term has been proposed and is used by certain people, but is extremely unfamiliar and often alienating to Latinos themselves: https://www.vox.com/2020/11/5/21548677/trump-hispanic-vote-l... (“[O]nly 3 percent of US Hispanics actually use it themselves.... The message of the term, however, is that the entire grammatical system of the Spanish language is problematic, which in any other context progressives would recognize as an alienating and insensitive message.”).

The article hand-waves away a deeply interesting question: What should an AI do here? Should AI reflect society, or be a vehicle for accelerating change? It seems at least reasonable to say that the AI should reflect what people actually say, in which case a big training dataset is appropriate, instead of what some experts decide that people should say. In some contexts, for example with “LatinX,” researchers seeking to enhance inclusivity could instead end up imposing a kind of racist elitism. (People without college educations—which disproportionately comprises immigrants and people of color—tend to be less knowledgeable about and slower to adopt these changes in vocabulary.)

The paper seems to imply that AIs should not reflect “social norms” but that training data should be selected to accentuate “attempt[ed]” shifts in such norms. Maybe that’s true, but it doesn’t seem obviously true. To return to the example above, is some Google AI generating the phrase “LatinX” (which 3/4 of Latinos have never even heard of: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in...) in preference to “Latino” or “Hispanic” actually the desired result?

Re: We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

#28

I have a genuine question: If a person of color (I am myself non-white) is not performing, what does it take to fire them without the entire world playing the race card on you? Are we creating a society that makes it impossible to fire a person of color? You know there are bad apples in every race, right? How do we handle such scenarios? Seems unfair to me, myself being a person of color - I don't want the world to t…

You’re going to be downvoted, not because of your questions, but because you decided to put “please bring the downvotes” at the end of your comment. Why would you undermine yourself by sticking such an antagonistic comment at the end of your post?

Re: We read the paper that forced Timnit Gebru out of Google

#30

I have a genuine question: If a person of color (I am myself non-white) is not performing, what does it take to fire them without the entire world playing the race card on you? Are we creating a society that makes it impossible to fire a person of color? You know there are bad apples in every race, right? How do we handle such scenarios? Seems unfair to me, myself being a person of color - I don't want the world to t…

Yes because this happens everytime a PoC is fired. Every single PoC who is fired gets this media attention.
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