US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill • Hacker News Board

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#121

Post by chillwaves » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #85

bransonf wrote: post #55

> not expected to advance further as long as the Senate remains in Republican hands. > “This legislation does not legalize cannabis across the country. It stops the federal government from interfering with what states have decided to do” In all seriousness, isn’t the Republican platform weaker central government? Why the exception?

The war on drugs has been a long Republican policy, right along with family values.

To be fair, centrist dems seem to have eagerly embraced it in the 90s. Maybe that's what it took to win elections, but the democrats have bought into this false narrative almost as much as the Republicans, to the point the distinction is just not meaningful.

I mean, in the year 2020, sure, democrats want legal weed but I am talking about the history of the drug war in America. Democrats have never been leaders.

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#122

Post by lukifer » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #86

The fact that this won't sail through congress in a week (it'll never even come up for a vote in the senate) really illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters. If there was a nationwide referendum on legalizing (not just decriminalizing) it would pass in a landslide today. Instead, congress will dither on this issue for probably the next five years at minimum. I realize it's more complicated than giving…

Even though public opinion has largely shifted on the Drug War and marijuana specifically, there remains a problem of vested economic interests in preserving the status quo: pharma and alcohol producers that don't want competition, private prisons and prison guard unions that fear loss of revenue, etc.

Having watched legalization play out here in Colorado (quite successfully by any metric), I think what greased the wheels of viability was simple profit motive, for better or worse. The "anti" lobbyists guarding their turf were balanced by "pro" lobbyists who perceived a growth market and investment opportunity; and both citizens and representatives were assuaged by the prospect of significant tax revenue for schools. Paradoxically, it may be that full federal legalization (with a revenue-positive regulatory framework) is more politically viable than decriminalization, even if the latter objectively saves taxpayers money.

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#123

Post by ogre_codes » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #101

ogre_codes wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war on drugs has been a long Republican policy, right along with family values.

"Family values". Because I don't see them racing to help provide mandatory days off or sufficient wages for people with lower incomes to be able to spend time with their families.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what family values means aside from the name. Mostly I think it's a euphemism policies that support straight married couples with kids.

It seems to be more about small tax breaks, and making life as difficult as possible for people who are not married and straight. Actually helping people might be construed as socialism.

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#124

Post by jfengel » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #110

mullingitover wrote: post #86

The fact that this won't sail through congress in a week (it'll never even come up for a vote in the senate) really illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters. If there was a nationwide referendum on legalizing (not just decriminalizing) it would pass in a landslide today. Instead, congress will dither on this issue for probably the next five years at minimum. I realize it's more complicated than giving…

> ...illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters. If there was a nationwide referendum on legalizing (not just decriminalizing) it would pass in a landslide today. In your own echo chamber, that may be true, but I hope you understand, there's a large number of voters (myself included) who oppose legalization. They may not be as vocal about it online, but their votes count just as much as yours.

More. They're the majority-of-the-majority, which is a minority, but enough to stop all legislation. The system of checks and balances is designed so that any change requires overwhelming support, and even a fairly small opposition can block anything from happening.

The votes of people in favor of the status quo always count more than the votes to change, by a factor of perhaps 3 (since they need to be only 26% in order to be the majority-of-the-majority). More, really, since they need to control only one of the House, the Senate, and the Presidency.

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#125

Post by panda-giddiness » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #86

The fact that this won't sail through congress in a week (it'll never even come up for a vote in the senate) really illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters. If there was a nationwide referendum on legalizing (not just decriminalizing) it would pass in a landslide today. Instead, congress will dither on this issue for probably the next five years at minimum. I realize it's more complicated than giving…

> The fact that this won't sail through congress in a week (it'll never even come up for a vote in the senate) really illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters.

There is a single person blocking this vote. I'd say it's rather unfair to characterize legislators in general as being out of touch when 228 members of Congress voted in favor of the bill. If fact, if you include both chambers of Congress, more legislators likely support this bill than don't.

If you want to blame more than one person, blame the Senators that elected the current Senate majority leader.

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#126

Post by defertoreptar » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #55

> not expected to advance further as long as the Senate remains in Republican hands. > “This legislation does not legalize cannabis across the country. It stops the federal government from interfering with what states have decided to do” In all seriousness, isn’t the Republican platform weaker central government? Why the exception?

[removed]

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#127

Post by jacques_chester » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #86

The fact that this won't sail through congress in a week (it'll never even come up for a vote in the senate) really illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters. If there was a nationwide referendum on legalizing (not just decriminalizing) it would pass in a landslide today. Instead, congress will dither on this issue for probably the next five years at minimum. I realize it's more complicated than giving…

> fully legalizing now would violate a number of important treaties with other countries

As I understand it, the US Congress has the power to withdraw from any treaty with legislation without restriction[0], by passing an Act that repeals the effect of the treaty. "Parliament | Congress cannot bind its future self" is a well-settled Common Law principle.

Treaties receive no special status. While they may be negotiated and recommended by the President, and come into effect upon supermajority consent of the Senate, treaties are nevertheless held to be legislative in nature. Since Congress cannot bind its future self, it can repeal any treaty at any time with the usual mechanisms.

Meaning: an Act that fully legalised marijuana could include clauses repealing the legal status of treaties.

Of course, I am not a lawyer.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_Money_Cases

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#128

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

chillwaves wrote: post #115

justaman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this add nothing. By this logic, the inverse is also true.

Republicans literally did not run a platform in the year 2020. They did not have one. Democrats did. It's easy to say "both sides" but the facts don't match that platitude.

That's not quite true. They just renewed the 2016 platform. Their resolution states "without adopting a new platform" and then attaches the full 2016 one below it.

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#129

Post by chillwaves » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

whythre wrote: post #90

CameronNemo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't make laws (or approve judges), Senators do. <16% of the US population elects 50 senators.

It’s almost like the US is a representational republic, not a democracy.

That's a clever turn of a phrase, but doesn't justify your position in any meaningful way.

Can you tell me why it makes sense for so few people to dominate the wills of so many?

Re: US House passes federal cannabis decriminalisation bill

#130

Post by mrguyorama » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 8:42 PM UTC

jfengel wrote: post #113

mullingitover wrote: post #86

The fact that this won't sail through congress in a week (it'll never even come up for a vote in the senate) really illustrates how out of touch legislators are with voters. If there was a nationwide referendum on legalizing (not just decriminalizing) it would pass in a landslide today. Instead, congress will dither on this issue for probably the next five years at minimum. I realize it's more complicated than giving…

Maybe not "voters as a whole", but legislators know which side their bread is buttered on. This fell along party lines, and it won't come up in the Senate because it's controlled by the party that opposes it. That party has the overwhelming favor of its constituency. They lost the top spot, but largely held their own in legislative elections. They may have a large contingent of people who would be in favor of decrimi…

Name them. The reason weed will not be legalized in America with this bill is solely, and only, the fault of Republicans