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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#401

Post by chrisseaton »

notreallytrue wrote: post #395
chrisseaton wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are they relying on someone that is on vacation in the first place? Sometimes there are only so many people who can solve a problem and society can't afford to have an excess number of them sitting around doing nothing in case there is an emergency. > Are firemen supposed to not go on holiday ever during their work life? Firemen, police, politicians, military, are all subject to getting recalled from leave if t…

> Sometimes there are only so many people who can solve a problem That's a very small subset of the entire workforce. Maybe one in a million or less > No it's reality! It's not. > Look at how many people criticise presidents who are 'golfing' when there is a crisis and life is being lost. They are right. The president is not a salaried worker, it's the president.

> The president is not a salaried worker, it's the president.

He works. He draws a salary. What do you think the difference is?

Why can't the Vice President delegate out of hours? Because that's not realistic? Well there you go... sometimes it's not realistic.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#402

Post by notreallytrue »

chrisseaton wrote: post #396
notreallytrue wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a terrible apology... Free time is a right If someone dies during your free time it's not your responsibility Besides: US have the worst life expectation of the whole west. You should ask yourself why.

> That's a terrible apology... I'm not apologising for anything. I never said anything about 'slacking'? Just confused where you got this idea. > If someone dies during your free time it's not your responsibility This isn't reality - look at how people criticise presidents who are golfing during a national crisis where people are dying. > US have the worst life expectation of the whole west This article is about the…

> ook at how people criticise presidents who are golfing during a national crisis where people are dying

Isn't the job of a president to handle crisis?

The job of a doctor is not to prevent any death, just those that they can prevent during their work hours.

> What's the US got to do with it?

Because they are the champions of working non stop and yet their results when it really matters (you brought up saving lives) are worse than anybody else

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#403

Post by centimeter »

gtfoutttt wrote: post #115
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

> SMH y'all IT people need a union.

Or just some balls. Don’t work more than you want to - either your employer will deal with it or you go find a new job. Not a big deal.

I work fewer hours than the median person at my company and I don’t think it has negatively impacted me much or at all. Any time someone tries to get me to do something that would require working additional hours I just say no or take extra vacation days in lieu (eg if I need to do something for a few hours on Saturday - I take an extra vacation day to make up. If it’s not worth it for the company, it doesn’t really need to get done on sat). Literally the worst case is you get fired, but probably nothing will happen.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#404

Post by rhino369 »

mikem170 wrote: post #53
matsemann wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better: Sick days shouldn't be a pool at all. In Norway there's X amount of sick days one can use without any hassle (all paid), to use any more all you have to do is show a doctors note. If you have to use more than Y amount of days (chronic illness, a more serious thing or something), the government will temporarily take on the responsibility of paying the worker's wages. I don't think people should be punishe…

Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.

In America they definitely do that, especially the less responsibilities the employee has. That's why Netflix or Goldman Sachs can give unlimited time off and its rarely abused. But if Walmart did it, their employees would take off 5 times a month for fake illnesses.

I worked as a unionized grocery clerk and essentially everyone used all their sick time. People (including me) would call off just because they wanted to go to a party or something.

Some places try to avoid this by requiring a doctors note. But that's worse. I worked for a midsize electronics company that had unlimited sick time, but I needed a doctors note for anytime. I literally ralphed in the bathroom mid-day on a friday and HR made me go to the doctor on Monday to justify it, even though I was already better.

That policy is crazy because it creates a transaction cost for sick days. If I have a bad cold or stomach virus, might as well go into work than go to the doctor right?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#405

Post by notreallytrue »

chrisseaton wrote: post #401
notreallytrue wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes there are only so many people who can solve a problem That's a very small subset of the entire workforce. Maybe one in a million or less > No it's reality! It's not. > Look at how many people criticise presidents who are 'golfing' when there is a crisis and life is being lost. They are right. The president is not a salaried worker, it's the president.

> The president is not a salaried worker, it's the president. He works. He draws a salary. What do you think the difference is? Why can't the Vice President delegate out of hours? Because that's not realistic? Well there you go... sometimes it's not realistic.

> He works. He draws a salary. What do you think the difference is?

Well... Let's say that if I have to explain it too you, we have bigger issues to solve first.

> Why can't the Vice President delegate out of hour

Because that's not how it works

By the law

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#406

Post by ketzo »

minimuffins wrote: post #381
GekkePrutser wrote: post #356

I don't really need that. My work is my hobby and even before Corona things were intermixed completely. If someone pings me at 11pm from the US with a major issue and I have nothing better to do, Call of Duty can wait till tomorrow :P I like helping people and it helps relax my mind knowing that in the morning there hasn't been a major escalation building up over the last 8 hours. And they know I'm in Europe so they…

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people who read Hacker News feel this way about their own jobs. But surely you can see this is necessarily a minority of the population. Necessarily, most people who are part or the world economy will not experience labor this way. It's a strange line of reasoning! Every time there's talk of reigning in employer surveillance, reducing working hours or generally speaking any…

Yep. And legislation like this is about giving more people power in their employment. The more that employee flexibility and autonomy is encoded in law, the more it will be reflected in the real world.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#407

Post by AnssiH »

cr1895 wrote: post #360
mediascreen wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One weird thing here in Sweden, is that you can take sick leave from your vacation. So if you get the flu during your vacation you can call in sick and not use your vacation days while you are sick. I have never heard of anyone doing this though and I would personally be too embarrassed to use the system in that way.

It's the same in the Netherlands.

Finland, too, I believe.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#408

Post by chrisseaton »

notreallytrue wrote: post #402
chrisseaton wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a terrible apology... I'm not apologising for anything. I never said anything about 'slacking'? Just confused where you got this idea. > If someone dies during your free time it's not your responsibility This isn't reality - look at how people criticise presidents who are golfing during a national crisis where people are dying. > US have the worst life expectation of the whole west This article is about the…

> ook at how people criticise presidents who are golfing during a national crisis where people are dying Isn't the job of a president to handle crisis? The job of a doctor is not to prevent any death, just those that they can prevent during their work hours. > What's the US got to do with it? Because they are the champions of working non stop and yet their results when it really matters (you brought up saving lives)…

> Isn't the job of a president to handle crisis?

Do you think he stops handling the crisis at 5pm? No? Why do you think not?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#409

Post by chrisseaton »

notreallytrue wrote: post #405
chrisseaton wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The president is not a salaried worker, it's the president. He works. He draws a salary. What do you think the difference is? Why can't the Vice President delegate out of hours? Because that's not realistic? Well there you go... sometimes it's not realistic.

> He works. He draws a salary. What do you think the difference is? Well... Let's say that if I have to explain it too you, we have bigger issues to solve first. > Why can't the Vice President delegate out of hour Because that's not how it works By the law

That's not how it works.. and that's the law... because it's not reasonable for some people to not respond out of hours.

Applies for ordinary people as well - such as soldiers and police who are liable for recall at any time.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#410

Post by gtfoutttt »

bobthechef wrote: post #165
gtfoutttt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

While I sympathize with the need to push back on bad management, the situation is a bit like being between a rock (bad management) and a hard place (unions). Tyranny of the few vs. tyranny of the majority or the mob. The latter is worse. It's also kind of a mediocre bandaid for deeper social problems. An employer that can get away with asking you to do unreasonable amounts of work, work ridiculous hours, or achieve i…

I work in a union in the USA and I love it. 40 hrs every week. Paid vacation. Paid medical dental and vision. A real pension.

And CS Lewis is no expert. He's a preacher.

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