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Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

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Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#291

Post by calibas »

JxLS-cpgbe0 wrote: post #280
calibas wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you combined the two "different" answers to why it's named JavaScript, you get the truth. Yes, it was promoted as a companion scripting language for Java, but that was in part because Java was so hot at the moment, so marketing had something to do with the decision to name it JavaScript.

Why "script" though? Aren't Java and JavaScript both script(ing languages)? Why not call it e-Java or Java XYZ or something?

This is all semantics, but the idea was that Java is a "real" language for serious use and JavaScript is a "script" that's much easier to use and doesn't involve all the complications of a "real" programming language.

It was only kind of true back then, and not even remotely true now. There really isn't a solid line you can draw between a "script" and a "programming language". To me, something like Python is right in between.

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#292

Post by speedgoose »

optimalsolver wrote: post #61

It doesn't have to be this way. Hopefully Brython[0] which lets you do client-side Python scripting takes off. Imagine doing full stack web dev without seeing a single line of JS. [0] https://brython.info/

I very much prefer modern JavaScript compared to Python. It's faster, has a better async support, as powerful, and I don't have to care about white space.

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#293

Post by mlyle »

JxLS-cpgbe0 wrote: post #280
calibas wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you combined the two "different" answers to why it's named JavaScript, you get the truth. Yes, it was promoted as a companion scripting language for Java, but that was in part because Java was so hot at the moment, so marketing had something to do with the decision to name it JavaScript.

Why "script" though? Aren't Java and JavaScript both script(ing languages)? Why not call it e-Java or Java XYZ or something?

How could one consider Java a scripting language? It's compiled to .class files, has no reasonable interactivity, strict structure enforced upon the code, etc. E.g. the antithesis of what makes us call something a scripting language in basically every category.

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#294

Post by drblast »

brundolf wrote: post #284

What stands out to me is how much more foresight they had than I'd thought about the ways JS would be used: > With JavaScript, an HTML page might contain an intelligent form that performs loan payment or currency exchange calculations right on the client in response to user input. A multimedia weather forecast applet written in Java can be scripted by JavaScript to display appropriate images and sounds based on the c…

The industry is cyclical and to be forward thinking all you have to do is describe what's already happened and assume it will happen again. ;-)

The things being done with JavaScript today are not new, nor is the idea that a server and client would coordinate to run interactive apps. That fundamental concept has been reimplemented in many different ways until we've landed on the current rube goldbergian monstrosity that are web apps.

It shows that the desire to have users interact with a service in particular ways will not go away. The technology used to do that is mostly irrelevant.

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#295

Post by AntiRush »

brundolf wrote: post #284

What stands out to me is how much more foresight they had than I'd thought about the ways JS would be used: > With JavaScript, an HTML page might contain an intelligent form that performs loan payment or currency exchange calculations right on the client in response to user input. A multimedia weather forecast applet written in Java can be scripted by JavaScript to display appropriate images and sounds based on the c…

Philip Greenspun has a great review of Netscape LiveWire from the time.

https://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/livewire.html

You can see that the current JavaScript tooling complains are nothing new under the sun:

  So what used to be a few keystrokes in Emacs or Netscape     
  Gold now requires three steps:

    edit the .html file
    recompile the .web file
    restart the LiveWire app from the appmgr

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#296

Post by pjmlp »

hutzlibu wrote: post #278
pjmlp wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android and ripping Sun off. Then they were hoping that no one would buy them, not even themselves cared to own Java after their trick. So now they push Kotlin, while researching Fuchsia, and keep a bunch of lawyers quite happy.

So implementing and pushing Java in Android was a torpedo against Sun? Interesting logic.

Android Java is not Java, and yes when I take someone's product and don't pay what the license specifies, while introducing an incomplete implementation, that is 100% ripping off.

Thankfully we are going to have that settled in the near future, and then Android folks can party all night long with their Kotlin implementation and rename ART into KVM.

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#297

Post by ptx »

TomGullen wrote: post #223
ptx wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Periodically tearing down the entire UI while the user is in the middle of using it is a terrible user experience.

That’s not how it was usually implemented though, you’d have frameless iframes that refreshed - eg for chat rooms etc

Did it preserve the scroll position when refreshing? If so, that might be OK for a chat room. But an email inbox is more interactive, so I think it would be jarring to have that refresh as you're poking at it.

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#299

Post by hi41 »

overkill28 wrote: post #36

I still don't know why they stuck the "Java" name on JavaScript. Very confusing when the two languages are completely unrelated. > Java programs and JavaScript scripts are designed to run on both clients and servers, with JavaScript scripts used to modify the properties and behavior of Java objects, so the range of live online applications that dynamically present information to and interact with users over enterpris…

As a new developer in early 2000, I couldn’t tell the difference between Java and JavaScript. I felt very ashamed of that.

Re: Netscape and Sun Announce JavaScript (1995)

#300

Post by JxLS-cpgbe0 »

mlyle wrote: post #293
JxLS-cpgbe0 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "script" though? Aren't Java and JavaScript both script(ing languages)? Why not call it e-Java or Java XYZ or something?

How could one consider Java a scripting language? It's compiled to .class files, has no reasonable interactivity, strict structure enforced upon the code, etc. E.g. the antithesis of what makes us call something a scripting language in basically every category.

So JavaScript meant "complement to Java, but converted to machine language in the browser, instead of compiled?"

(Thank you, genuine question)

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