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Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

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71–80 of 326 posts

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#71
I was wondering if anyone knew enough to clarify a couple of things from this part of Dean's letter:

> Unfortunately, this particular paper was only shared with a day’s notice before its deadline — we require two weeks for this sort of review — and then instead of awaiting reviewer feedback, it was approved for submission and submitted.

There seems to be something between the lines here. How was it approved for submission? Did Gebru or one of the other authors approve it? And if so, would that be unusual?

> A cross functional team then reviewed the paper as part of our regular process and the authors were informed that it didn’t meet our bar for publication and were given feedback about why. It ignored too much relevant research — for example, it talked about the environmental impact of large models, but disregarded subsequent research showing much greater efficiencies. Similarly, it raised concerns about bias in language models, but didn’t take into account recent research to mitigate these issues. We acknowledge that the authors were extremely disappointed with the decision that Megan and I ultimately made, especially as they’d already submitted the paper.

Does this contradict what Gebru has said so far? Didn't she say she wasn't given any feedback?

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#72
post #18

It is unfortunate that way too many commenters on a prior threads dismissed her as a some twitter personality and trivialized her body of work in spite of the fact that she is well regarded and reputable in the ML community. It's becoming clear a rising number of her colleagues are in support of what she was seeking to publish. A reviewer on reddit mentioned the authors have plenty of time to make revisions if there…

She demanded to know the identities of anonymous internal reviewers of her paper, or else she would resign. Google accepted her resignation. What is the evidence that this has to do with the content of the paper?

You don't "accept someone's resignation" and then add terms to it and actually "resign" them a little sooner than they were going to resign.

That's called firing.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Body of work aside, she absolutely is an aggressive-ranging-into-toxic Twitter personality and a very strident proponent of a divisive and dogmatic strain of diversity advocacy.

When was the last time a marginalized group gained rights by asking politely?

[deleted]

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#74
post #33
post #15

Does anyone have a link to the paper she was fired over? I've spent some time searching with no luck. I'd like to know what was technically controversial.

Just the abstract: https://old.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/k69eq0/n_t...

This abstract doesn't really grab me by the frontal lobe. Is it possible the internal reviewers just thought the paper sucked?

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#76
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Body of work aside, she absolutely is an aggressive-ranging-into-toxic Twitter personality and a very strident proponent of a divisive and dogmatic strain of diversity advocacy.

If she was truly removed for her abrasiveness, we would have a completely separate discussion entirely. What transpired, from both her disclosures and Google's leaderships response, has justifiably reigned in a lot of concern and skeptism from the broader research community.

She was, they said her email was not befitting of a manager. Which is clearly true

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#77

After reading everything that has come out (e.g. her email) and her history of highly toxic Twitter behavior, I honestly can't blame Google for accepting her resignation (she was not fired).

I don't buy this line. Toxic personality types are a hallmark of the technology sphere and they are typically given a free pass on such behavior in the name of meritocracy. The problem for Gebru is that her particular type of toxicity is not palatable to the entrenched culture, merit be damned.

Those free passes ended years ago as can be seen by many high-profile removals and resignations (for both corporate policy and social pressure reasons).

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#78
post #18

It is unfortunate that way too many commenters on a prior threads dismissed her as a some twitter personality and trivialized her body of work in spite of the fact that she is well regarded and reputable in the ML community. It's becoming clear a rising number of her colleagues are in support of what she was seeking to publish. A reviewer on reddit mentioned the authors have plenty of time to make revisions if there…

It is regrettable that Timnit Gebru chose the public route, first writing to the 'Brain Women and Allies' mailing list, where she implied that the rejection of her paper is part of a pattern of 'constant dehumanization' (a person holding one of the highest status technical jobs in tech, TL of an AI research group at Google Brain), and then going straight to Twitter and telling half truths under the cover of potential legal action. Not sure what is customary in AI research these days, back in my day it was common to polish and resubmit to the next conference. ICML deadline is Tue 29 Dec 2020, less than a month ahead. There is also ACL, the top NLP conference, Mon 01 Feb 2021, two months ahead.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be, although it is more than likely a small percentage because so many people do not agree with the cause.

Oh maybe that don't give a fuck and just want their big check?

Realistically, the majority just want this bad PR to go away and for Google to be better at preventing it from getting to this point.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#80
post #18

It is unfortunate that way too many commenters on a prior threads dismissed her as a some twitter personality and trivialized her body of work in spite of the fact that she is well regarded and reputable in the ML community. It's becoming clear a rising number of her colleagues are in support of what she was seeking to publish. A reviewer on reddit mentioned the authors have plenty of time to make revisions if there…

Body of work aside, she absolutely is an aggressive-ranging-into-toxic Twitter personality and a very strident proponent of a divisive and dogmatic strain of diversity advocacy.

Her spat against Yann LeCun felt very wrong to me. That is not how fellow academics/researchers should treat each other.

Maybe Yann LeCun was wrong, the way she conveyed the message disregarding any knowledge he might have on this was definitely not civil.

She could have chosen a different way to address the complaints here, not by getting overtly confrontational. Maybe the review group got it wrong, maybe they were right. But that is not how you handle disputes.

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