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Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

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Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#21

Post by elefanten »

p49k wrote: post #7
pinewurst wrote: post #3

I'm tired of FAANG "rallies" where the numerator is such a small percentage of the denominator. I bet one could get "hundreds" of Google employees to rally behind a flat earth and many more for the abolition of mayonnaise.

The numerator is such a small percentage because so many fear losing their jobs for speaking out. In that context, this number is quite significant. Even if you disagree with their stance, you have to admit that it takes courage to speak up in these kinds of situations.

Except that the “rallying” aligns with what is now the presumptive, dominant narrative.

It would be courageous to do the opposite.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#24

Post by oh_sigh »

p49k wrote: post #7
pinewurst wrote: post #3

I'm tired of FAANG "rallies" where the numerator is such a small percentage of the denominator. I bet one could get "hundreds" of Google employees to rally behind a flat earth and many more for the abolition of mayonnaise.

The numerator is such a small percentage because so many fear losing their jobs for speaking out. In that context, this number is quite significant. Even if you disagree with their stance, you have to admit that it takes courage to speak up in these kinds of situations.

This argument can be made about any unpopular subject.

Americans really want full-blown Communism, but are too afraid of speaking out for fear of retaliation from jack-booted capitalist thugs.

Prove me wrong.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#25

Post by recursive »

echelon wrote: post #2

Companies can't straddle the line. They're either going to have to go all-in on diversity, inclusion, and politics, or they're going to have to clamp down hard like Brian Armstrong. Google needs to decide what it wants to be. Given its choices, I think it's clear what they want. They just need to say it. It'll help employees and potential employees know if they want to work there.

If my company decides to "go all-in on diversity, inclusion, and politics", could there ever be any legitimate reason to fire an employee who's also "all-in on diversity, inclusion, and politics"?

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#26

Post by castlecrasher2 »

marricks wrote: post #13
king_magic wrote: post #4

After reading everything that has come out (e.g. her email) and her history of highly toxic Twitter behavior, I honestly can't blame Google for accepting her resignation (she was not fired).

I mean, Google spends billions on lobbying and PR, so if you heard anything new and bad about her in the past day or two you gotta wonder. Her job involves ethics, if you're not stirring the pot a bit you're probably not doing ethics and just acting as PR for your company? *Also, while my reply is source/fact free your comment is as well, so I think they're both reasonably at the same level.

Her own Twitter behavior is testament enough. Unless you think Google has control over that, too.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#27

Post by busterarm »

recursive wrote: post #25
echelon wrote: post #2

Companies can't straddle the line. They're either going to have to go all-in on diversity, inclusion, and politics, or they're going to have to clamp down hard like Brian Armstrong. Google needs to decide what it wants to be. Given its choices, I think it's clear what they want. They just need to say it. It'll help employees and potential employees know if they want to work there.

If my company decides to "go all-in on diversity, inclusion, and politics", could there ever be any legitimate reason to fire an employee who's also "all-in on diversity, inclusion, and politics"?

When they try to illegally hire/not-hire people based on protected class, which if I read correctly is something she was pushing for. Forgive me if this is mischaracterized.

I don't want to work anywhere that pushes any ideology so far that they break the law. That goes for if it's in pushing their bottom line as well, so regulatory gray-area companies like Uber & AirBnB are also a no-go for me.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#28

Post by baq »

dheera wrote: post #6

Ultimatums never work, and threatening to resign is never a good strategy (compared to either trying to amicably work things out OR just resigning). However Google's passive-aggressive response wasn't terribly great either ("We respect your decision to leave Google ... and we are accepting your resignation.") It's a firing packaged up as fake "respect". I wish both sides learned more about how to de-escalate situatio…

or she just wanted to leave. perhaps causing some fuss was part of the plan, too.

i'm not involved with google in any way except being their product and user of their services... but neither side inspires my confidence here.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#29

Post by oh_sigh »

steve_g wrote: post #15

Does anyone have a link to the paper she was fired over? I've spent some time searching with no luck. I'd like to know what was technically controversial.

Saying she was fired over the paper is a leap without any evidence. It's possible her paper was perfectly benign, with minor issues, and she handled the response to the minor issues in a "we accept your resignation" kind of way.

For an extreme example: I could say "I got tazed and arrested for doing 5 mph over the speed limit". That sounds insane. That cop should be fired and in jail! What I haven't told you is: I was doing 5 mph over the speed limit, and I was just going to get a warning from the cop, but I became combative and tried to physically fight the cop, at which point I got tazed and arrested.

It's also possible she was fired for the paper. But she has published many papers while at Google without issue, so it would have to be something stunningly different than her previous papers.

Re: Google staff rally behind fired AI researcher

#30

Post by throw14082020 »

marricks wrote: post #13
king_magic wrote: post #4

After reading everything that has come out (e.g. her email) and her history of highly toxic Twitter behavior, I honestly can't blame Google for accepting her resignation (she was not fired).

I mean, Google spends billions on lobbying and PR, so if you heard anything new and bad about her in the past day or two you gotta wonder. Her job involves ethics, if you're not stirring the pot a bit you're probably not doing ethics and just acting as PR for your company? *Also, while my reply is source/fact free your comment is as well, so I think they're both reasonably at the same level.

She can stir the pot, but to boil it is another matter. As others have said, she is "toxic". Many of her sentences hurt as they're emotionally charged, but provide no actual value or content. Just crying.
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