Hopefully this can reduce the number of globally distributed teams. I mean, I love the global teams I'm working with but the need for after hours meetings is not worth it. I'm not really a big pro nationalism person, but at least a preference to being in the same time zone makes sense.
EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
221–230 of 540 posts
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Then the work doesn't get completed on time! Do you realise in some fields work not getting completed on time could in some cases cause people to die? Sometimes there is an emergency, and a professional saying 'sorry nope on vacation your fault for not having enough people to cover every eventuality' just isn't reasonable.
It is reasonable. The buck stops somewhere. If you're on call sure but there are rules around that. Don't guilt people who happen to have lifesaving jobs for taking vacations.
> Don't guilt people who happen to have lifesaving jobs for taking vacations.
In many cases taking that job means accepting you may be forced to come in and work. Often called 'unlimited liability' for example. If you can't accept that, then leave the job to someone who can.
> The buck stops somewhere.
In this case apparently it's fine for it to stop with a dead person.
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even better: Sick days shouldn't be a pool at all. In Norway there's X amount of sick days one can use without any hassle (all paid), to use any more all you have to do is show a doctors note. If you have to use more than Y amount of days (chronic illness, a more serious thing or something), the government will temporarily take on the responsibility of paying the worker's wages. I don't think people should be punishe…
Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.
Yeah, its almost like by law in Norway, employers have to provide 25 days of paid leave, whereas in the US, people have to behave "irresponsibly" to have a semblance of a normal life, free of work.
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.
> Then the work doesn't get completed on time! Do you realise in some fields work not getting completed on time could in some cases cause people to die? Sometimes there is an emergency, and a professional saying 'sorry nope on vacation your fault for not having enough people to cover every eventuality' just isn't reasonable.
Sounds like a poorly built strawman you have there.
How often do you believe people get asked to work extra hours to save lives in imminent danger? 1 in 10000?
This law would cover other 9999 cases.
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There’s no such this as “overtime” in most salaried jobs though. You’re paid just for being an employee, not for hours worked. If there's no concept of overtime in most salaried jobs, there's a problem with your country as well. I'm a salaried, full-time employee and I'm paid to work 37.5 hours a week, no more, no less. And the collective agreement for IT services industry (which is what concerns me as a developer)…
And you probably get paid 1/3 to 1/2 of what a developer in the US can make. The reality of the world is that if you're the lead developer for some product you will have times that you need to work off hours. Like if production is down how can you say: "My 40 hours is up this week, I'll look at it on Monday". It's a balance. You shouldn't routinely be working a ton of nights and weekends. But sometimes shit hits the…
Is the American developer happier in life than the Finn? Do they have time to enjoy all that extra money?
The 40 hours is averaged over several weeks (normally). You can have an extra 3 hours, but leave work at lunchtime the next day.
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#226You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…
Years ago I saw an executive call up a senior IT manager who was on vacation with his family and instruct him to cut it short and return immediately. Imagine how livid he and his family would have been.
I get that people can be “senior” and in charge of important things, etc. but at a certain point if “leaders” do these things they are simply being terrible people and not really “handling” unexpected problems well.
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. Do you think it's a coincidence they get such a bad press?
At least in America, a good portion of it is a cultural difference. The EU tends to take worker protections more seriously without considering collateral damage (according to some). OTOH, America just does nothing because there’s an entire political party who’s big premise is “any and all regulation is bad regulation.”
Another way of saying 'The EU tends to take worker protections more seriously without considering collateral damage' is 'The US tends to take corporate protections more seriously without considering collateral damage'.
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? No, it doesn't work like that in Poland. You can just call it in, saying "I'm sick" and then go to the doctor. Doctor's note can cover up to 3 days before the visit.
I've occasionally been able to get in same day in the US but it's certainly the exception (and I don't live in/near a major metro). A week or more to see a GP wouldn't be uncommon.
You need a different doc or to get out of your HMO or something. I never have a problem getting in to see a doc same or next day if it’s needed...
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#229As a European I hate these types of EU initiatives. Why not let member states decide on this themselves? When Sweden voted to join the EU there was a lot of talk about the subsidiary principle[0], but it seems almost completely forgotten now. I guess one could argue that it affects the internal labour market in some way, but so could pretty much any issue. I would love to see more members of the EU parliament vote ag…
Given that one of the fundamentals of the EU is freedom of movement of workers, workers rights fall right into core competences of EU legislation.
Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home
#230Heaven forbid you should have to compete with someone who's prepared to work harder than you!