“I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews” • Hacker News Board

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#441

Post by vsareto » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

neverminder wrote: post #435

okareaman wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - it's not enough to be able to solve the problems, you need to be able to solve them on the spot, without much thinking, in an interview context Sounds like they're looking for assembly line programmers - crank out the code, pass it off, then on to the next piece of code without pause. This would be a nightmare for me. The high salaries and prestige of these companies definitely would not be worth it. I'm not neur…

It's because when companies get that big and famous they no longer need that many creative individual thinkers, they need obedient drones. With disproportionately large numbers of applicants they get, they are able to make you jump through all the hoops they put in front of you, because if you won't there are thousands of others who will.

NGL, I'd jump through hoops for 250k + other compensation

Part of why this has stuck around for so long is that so many people are willing to do that because it's a life-altering amount of money

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#442

Post by the-dude » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

abj wrote: post #413

the-dude wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing a labor union.

I agree, I avoided using the word union. In an ideal world, this would be a union. In (what I worry might be) the real world, the word union conjures unhelpful barriers to action. I'm less interested in fighting idealogical battles. I'm more interested in achieving a practical goal - getting a large group of people to say no to leetcode. My guess is more people will say no to leetcode if they think of it as a general…

In the EU unions are not as tainted as in the US, but we still have neoliberals on the right, and 'progressives' on the left, both clamoring individualism for their own agendas.

There is no solidarity left : earlier this year my country ( NL ) threw all elderly under the bus ( we have no room for you on intensive care ).

You know what happened? They got scared. That was all.

I remember the 80ties : all unions would have united and the entire country would have revolted.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#443

Post by monktastic1 » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #55

decafninja wrote: post #12

Unless you've made it to your "endgame" company that you're happy to stay at for a while, I feel investing anything more than the bare minimum to get your assigned work done is worth less than just grinding leetcode and otherwise studying for interviews. Doing an actual good job, above and beyond, is not going to be worth much when you're looking for your next job. Thus we're now seeing the rise of Professional Inter…

Our industry feels like it's in the decline of the Roman Empire right now. Our craft is becoming arcane: Microsoft is building VSCode for the cloud. Few people own desktop computers anymore. Apple is locking down MacOS to signed binaries. Soon we'll all have thin clients and will write software in the cloud for the cloud. Few will be able to learn how to engineer at home anymore - you'll have to go to a university or…

> Google kills products that make customers and engineers happy and doesn't spend enough effort to make them better.

Heck, as far back as 2010 I got a promo at Google because I was the only one on the Google Maps data team (or the org) who wanted to keep the data up to date. (Also the only one who wanted to live in Seattle -- which might as well have been Siberia to them.) So they shipped me up there and gave me a team. It was like somewhere, deep down, they knew it was a good idea, but each person could forcefully argue why it wasn't -- so that it didn't have to be them.

It was great! Well, other than encountering more of the famously toxic culture, where people get promoted for being smart but nasty. But I'm sure that little problem has been solved.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#444

Post by coffeefirst » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

svrb wrote: post #176

tinkertamper wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I started trying something new for our interviews. I start with a phone interview that is more about discussing their background, expertise, what they need to feel productive, and explain the role. If I think they’d be a good culture and expertise fit, I send them something like this (I’ve made a few): https://gist.github.com/tywalch/cf60e4c942ab6a80e481f4ba6754... . It’s a small “api service” that represent…

TL;DR: you're testing for likability and other emotional response.

If anyone believes this, I highly recommend trying to learn interviewing. It's a skill. You can read about it, you can get good at it.

It's probably a better use of your time than studying leetcode.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#445

Post by fabatka » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:12 PM UTC

abj wrote: post #370

What if we form a group/site that refuses to do leetcode interviews? This seems like a classic coordination problem. If enough people refuse, companies will have their talent pool limited. We could use this group to help match companies and developers who don't want to leetcode. If it's true that leetcode filters out great developers, than companies who 'can't find talent' should be able to use our group to find some…

Why not just publicly collect the companies that are known to not ask applicants to "invert a binary tree"? This would generate an incentive for companies.

The data could be community-driven, but of course that risks sufficiently big players fudging the input data (sort of like the fake reviews on e.g. Amazon). Even so, it may be possible to detect which companies are faking it.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#446

Post by shawnz » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:15 PM UTC

abstractbarista wrote: post #439

the-dude wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing a labor union.

I'm fine with voluntary unions that don't want to take my money. I just don't want to be forced to pay up to a mafia 'protector' just to work in a position.

How do you expect to establish/coordinate such a union without any funding?

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#447

Post by Dork1234 » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:15 PM UTC

abstractbarista wrote: post #439

the-dude wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are describing a labor union.

I'm fine with voluntary unions that don't want to take my money. I just don't want to be forced to pay up to a mafia 'protector' just to work in a position.

Where are the going to get the money to pay for lawyers and negotiators? Sure everyone wants something for free, but no one wants to pay for it.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#448

Post by foldr » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:16 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #55

decafninja wrote: post #12

Unless you've made it to your "endgame" company that you're happy to stay at for a while, I feel investing anything more than the bare minimum to get your assigned work done is worth less than just grinding leetcode and otherwise studying for interviews. Doing an actual good job, above and beyond, is not going to be worth much when you're looking for your next job. Thus we're now seeing the rise of Professional Inter…

Our industry feels like it's in the decline of the Roman Empire right now. Our craft is becoming arcane: Microsoft is building VSCode for the cloud. Few people own desktop computers anymore. Apple is locking down MacOS to signed binaries. Soon we'll all have thin clients and will write software in the cloud for the cloud. Few will be able to learn how to engineer at home anymore - you'll have to go to a university or…

>Few people own desktop computers anymore. Apple is locking down MacOS to signed binaries. Soon we'll all have thin clients and will write software in the cloud for the cloud. Few will be able to learn how to engineer at home anymore - you'll have to go to a university or trade school. Building a simple website will require JS package management, kubernetes, and AWS. The "free tier" will fall away.

Building a simple website is easier and cheaper now than it ever was.

When I was a kid, I dreamed of being able to have my own domain name and an account on a shared server where I could run CGI scripts. Now most people who can afford a laptop can afford to host their own website on a virtual server.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#449

Post by abj » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #410

bananaface wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't work because there's a giant incentive to defect and no way to effectively police it.

Does individual defection even matter? The purpose of this isn't to put pressure on job seekers, it's to put pressure on employers. The whole idea of "policing" the members seems strange to me. If you're the type of job seeker who has no objection to leetcode, you wouldn't join. And if you're the type of employer who refuses to do anything else, this would be the last place you'd look for hiring. The goal is to publi…

You're right - individual defection doesn't matter. This is optional. The whole idea of "policing" the members seems strange to me and I agree doesn't need to be anywhere near this.

"If you're the type of job seeker who has no objection to leetcode, you wouldn't join. And if you're the type of employer who refuses to do anything else, this would be the last place you'd look for hiring."

This is very well said and exactly what I'm hoping for.

"The goal is to publicly show employers how many "refuseniks" there are. The situation right now is that refusal only happens privately and anecdotally."

This is exactly the goal and what I'm hoping to improve.

Re: “I've had to relearn coding to get through the new interviews”

#450

Post by Dork1234 » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 3:18 PM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #442

abj wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I avoided using the word union. In an ideal world, this would be a union. In (what I worry might be) the real world, the word union conjures unhelpful barriers to action. I'm less interested in fighting idealogical battles. I'm more interested in achieving a practical goal - getting a large group of people to say no to leetcode. My guess is more people will say no to leetcode if they think of it as a general…

In the EU unions are not as tainted as in the US, but we still have neoliberals on the right, and 'progressives' on the left, both clamoring individualism for their own agendas. There is no solidarity left : earlier this year my country ( NL ) threw all elderly under the bus ( we have no room for you on intensive care ). You know what happened? They got scared. That was all. I remember the 80ties : all unions would h…

Many Unions in the US have a good standing (Teachers, Police, Nurses), some circles have been brainwashed by corporate propaganda that they are all horrible.