EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home • Hacker News Board

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#31

Post by yladiz » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

0xfaded wrote: post #9

troughway wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What does that even mean? Is the EU also going to come out with the "Right to breathe" and the "Right to go to the bathroom when you need to"? Have you seen amazon's warehouse work conditions?

Every regulation like this is a band-aid, and more band-aids will just make the EU even more quintessentially the EU. If the governance focused on restoring negotiating power to workers, you wouldn't need to write to your MP to go to the toilet.

Are you saying I should have to negotiate the number of toilet breaks I get?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#32

Post by aminozuur » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

What about the employees who are happy to stay ready 'on-call', in a position where they are payed more then they've ever made?

Could the employee make an agreement with his/her employer, or would such an agreement be deemed 'unlawful' under the new law?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#33

Post by mabbo » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

Luxembourg has some laws like this already, or so I've been told.

I worked for a little while on a project with a team based out of the Luxembourg office (Amazon). They mentioned casually that it's illegal for them to be paged from like 10pm to 6am. Not that the company policy forbids it, that the LAW forbids it and the company would be in serious trouble.

If the company needs an overnight on-call operator, they have to hire one (or, in Amazon's case, just have a team in Seattle, 9 hours offset, handle night on-call).

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#34

Post by rapsey » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

hawktheslayer wrote: post #11

I also see the opposite impact both for me and my staff. It's very difficult to say no to the constant demands of children at home and the lack of physical distance makes it hard for me to concentrate on my work during regular work hours.

But that does not hold for everyone. If you have an office room in your house you can keep children at bay. Lots of parents are fine with working from home.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#35

Post by WJW » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #14

troughway wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What does that even mean? Is the EU also going to come out with the "Right to breathe" and the "Right to go to the bathroom when you need to"? Have you seen amazon's warehouse work conditions?

Yes, some people's work conditions are very bad and something needs to be done about that. That's beside the point. If you need to ask the government to give you the right to use the bathroom, or to give you the right to not check your email, you've already lost.

That is the point though. Some of these people have indeed "already lost" to the companies employing them and need assistance from a government or other powerful organisation to bring back some balance to that relationship.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#36

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #14

troughway wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What does that even mean? Is the EU also going to come out with the "Right to breathe" and the "Right to go to the bathroom when you need to"? Have you seen amazon's warehouse work conditions?

Yes, some people's work conditions are very bad and something needs to be done about that. That's beside the point. If you need to ask the government to give you the right to use the bathroom, or to give you the right to not check your email, you've already lost.

Well, yes, you've already lost because your employer is taking that away from you?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#37

Post by matsemann » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:36 PM UTC

MereInterest wrote: post #15

CommanderData wrote: post #4

Love this. I've increasingly seen and heard employers trying to take advantage of the current situation and we need more regulation and protection for workers. People are being asked to do extra and too afraid to speak out especially with so many companies making redundancies. One area of focus for me is sickness and working from home. Sick days should be about rest and recovering both physically and mentally. Often…

Along the same lines on sick days, I think it should be forbidden for employers to merge vacation days and sick days into "PTO". Merging the pools gives an incentive for people to come to work while ill. For example, suppose somebody has 3 PTO days remaining for the year, and they are all earmarked for Christmas vacation with family. If that person catches the flu in early December, their options are (a) cancel Chris…

Even better: Sick days shouldn't be a pool at all.

In Norway there's X amount of sick days one can use without any hassle (all paid), to use any more all you have to do is show a doctors note. If you have to use more than Y amount of days (chronic illness, a more serious thing or something), the government will temporarily take on the responsibility of paying the worker's wages. I don't think people should be punished for being sick.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#38

Post by userbinator » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

Seeing this is surprising, as none of the places I've worked expects me to work outside of normal working hours, in the same way they don't expect me to do personal activities in their working hours.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#39

Post by zeeZ » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

raister wrote: post #6

> The new legislation, which is expected to be passed by Germany's Bundestag parliament, would allow workers to write off €5 ($6) per day to offset extra heating and electricity costs. That's not feasible or scalable. As it is a balance, they will give you this but will take out somewhere else (less yearly increase and so on). It's almost a disservice...

You can write off 0,30 € per km one way if you commute to work by car. If you live more than 16 km away from your workplace that's already a loss for you.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#40

Post by MereInterest » Fri, Dec 04, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

hawktheslayer wrote: post #11

I also see the opposite impact both for me and my staff. It's very difficult to say no to the constant demands of children at home and the lack of physical distance makes it hard for me to concentrate on my work during regular work hours.

I'd see that as a difference in the current situation. The best way I've heard it phrased is that we are not working from home. Rather, we are at home during a crisis, trying to work. Yes, it is month 9 of a crisis, but still a crisis, and it is reasonable for performance expectations to be lower as a result.

For me, my apartment wasn't chosen with the expectation of being a space to work from home. My computer desk is in the corner of the living room, because I like being able to talk with my wife while playing video games. When covid hit, that also became my work desk, as there isn't a good place elsewhere to move it. The space simply wasn't intended to be a dedicated work area, and I know that I get distracted whenever my cats wail at me for attention. (I imagine that kids are even more needing of attention, though I don't have personal experimental evidence to back that up.)

And that's okay. That's human. It's okay to re-evaluate expectations in light of a crisis, and know that there will be distractions throughout the day as a result.