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Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

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Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#51

Post by oblio »

the-dude wrote: post #40
bregma wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many students than can be supported in the educational commons from interested society. It is in the interest of society as a whole to have a better-educated population. That means support for individuals being educated must come from all members of society -- in other words, it's a government domain funded through taxes. Absent common support, the interests of specific groups, mostly corporate shareholders expec…

That is your opinion, not a fact. Meanwhile in NL we have to import carpenter/plumber/drywall laborers, because ... we discourage choosing such a career for our own population and don't provide the education anymore. In the not so distant past, we did. What a lot of software 'engineers' in NL rather don't see is that you can make a very very healthy living as a 'drywaller' ( not a native speaker, can't find the word…

People tend to run away from physical, backbreaking work.

It's hard to do this kind of job when you're 50 or 60 and with physical work the risk of death or injury is also higher.

Plus it's harder to move up the financial and social ladder.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#52

Post by freedomben »

username90 wrote: post #35
kungito wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the books be able to teach about "how" as well? I'm from a mediocre country where I went to the best CS college and 99% of the things I learned there was from powerpoint presentations, pdf scripts or books full of math exercises. I still got into FAMANG as my first full time job and so did many other people from there. I just never saw the value in our professors. They mostly repeated stuff from text books,…

You need positive teaching and negative teaching. Positive teaches how, negative teaches how not to. Without negative teaching people will accumulate a lot of bad or right out wrong beliefs and patterns as they study. A book cannot provide negative teaching, it can only teach you how to do things.

I would humbly submit that you aren't using very good books. I read all my text books during my CS degree, and there was plenty of negative teaching in there. A well written book or tutorial covers common pitfalls and equips you to recognize bad as well as good.

I do think there is a ton of value in getting feedback from a professor or colleague, but you can get pretty far with a book.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#53

Post by rmrfstar »

chrisseaton wrote: post #45
fumblebee wrote: post #23

My CS department formed an "industry partnership" with Microsoft (circa 2015). All of a sudden, we were made to spend time learning Azure, we were given Surface Tablets for building apps, there were guest lectures by Microsoft employees, we were prompted to apply for MS internships, etc. What the department intended to be a harmless collaboration, turned out to be an aggressive marketing push by Microsoft for hearts…

> there were guest lectures by Microsoft employees Given that MS employs some seriously world-leading computer science academics, isn't this a great thing? I wish I got lectures from people like this!

That's well and good for you.

The academy is supposed to be its own free-standing institution with its own values and its own agenda. There are intelligent people who don't want to work with people who build mass surveillance systems, provide IT services to scary government agencies, crush competition, etc. Having Microsoft at a university should be like having ROTC at a university. You can opt in if you want, or avoid it if you want.

Didn't Hinton go to Canada so he didn't have to take DoD money?

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#54

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

blackbear_ wrote: post #2

This is all wrong. The purpose of Universities is to uphold, expand and disseminate human culture, not to prepare people for a career in the industry. Big tech should not be allowed to piggyback on the reputation of educational institutions to push their products and the latest fads at the expense of the fundamentals.

Pretty much all schooling in the modern world is basically a means by which corporations externalize job training. The general public is not blameless either, having equated schooling with job prospects for a long, long time. Consequently, almost no actual education occurs at school. I have a friend who tells a story about meeting a 4.0 student from one of the highest rated high schools in the country who honestly wasn't sure which side the US fought on in WWII.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#55

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

oblio wrote: post #51
the-dude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is your opinion, not a fact. Meanwhile in NL we have to import carpenter/plumber/drywall laborers, because ... we discourage choosing such a career for our own population and don't provide the education anymore. In the not so distant past, we did. What a lot of software 'engineers' in NL rather don't see is that you can make a very very healthy living as a 'drywaller' ( not a native speaker, can't find the word…

People tend to run away from physical, backbreaking work. It's hard to do this kind of job when you're 50 or 60 and with physical work the risk of death or injury is also higher. Plus it's harder to move up the financial and social ladder.

Then maybe we, as a culture, should work harder on not looking down on people who do the actual labor of keeping civilization afloat.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#56

Post by seanmcdirmid »

chrisseaton wrote: post #45
fumblebee wrote: post #23

My CS department formed an "industry partnership" with Microsoft (circa 2015). All of a sudden, we were made to spend time learning Azure, we were given Surface Tablets for building apps, there were guest lectures by Microsoft employees, we were prompted to apply for MS internships, etc. What the department intended to be a harmless collaboration, turned out to be an aggressive marketing push by Microsoft for hearts…

> there were guest lectures by Microsoft employees Given that MS employs some seriously world-leading computer science academics, isn't this a great thing? I wish I got lectures from people like this!

It depends if those lectures were from MSR or product development teams.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#57

Post by the-dude »

oblio wrote: post #51
the-dude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is your opinion, not a fact. Meanwhile in NL we have to import carpenter/plumber/drywall laborers, because ... we discourage choosing such a career for our own population and don't provide the education anymore. In the not so distant past, we did. What a lot of software 'engineers' in NL rather don't see is that you can make a very very healthy living as a 'drywaller' ( not a native speaker, can't find the word…

People tend to run away from physical, backbreaking work. It's hard to do this kind of job when you're 50 or 60 and with physical work the risk of death or injury is also higher. Plus it's harder to move up the financial and social ladder.

Ah, well, this might help to explain to said cohort that instead of having a vocational training, they should study to become an Ethical AI scientist.

We should not forget their predicament is in their own making after all. It definitely sleeps better.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#58

Post by Orthw2020 »

Beldin wrote: post #38
kungito wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the books be able to teach about "how" as well? I'm from a mediocre country where I went to the best CS college and 99% of the things I learned there was from powerpoint presentations, pdf scripts or books full of math exercises. I still got into FAMANG as my first full time job and so did many other people from there. I just never saw the value in our professors. They mostly repeated stuff from text books,…

As an assistant prof in CS: - books can partially teach you the "how" and also partially the "why". - at university, you are being taught how to teach yourself, not necessarily how to perform practical things. Age of the exercise is therefore less relevant. - ideally, teaching a room full of 50 students is easy better than an online class with 50, which easily should beat a video. Not all classes are like this which…

> ...at university, you are being taught how to teach yourself, not necessarily how to perform practical things.

vs getting a self-taught junior role early and not being $100k in debt?

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#59

Post by fumblebee »

esyir wrote: post #26
fumblebee wrote: post #23

My CS department formed an "industry partnership" with Microsoft (circa 2015). All of a sudden, we were made to spend time learning Azure, we were given Surface Tablets for building apps, there were guest lectures by Microsoft employees, we were prompted to apply for MS internships, etc. What the department intended to be a harmless collaboration, turned out to be an aggressive marketing push by Microsoft for hearts…

Hardware, training and bloody faang internships offered and the student body revolted? Jesus, if they did that where I was a student I would have celebrated.

My main grumble was the distinct lack of choice; we were _made_ to use Microsoft products and services. I didn't pay however much money to be wrapped up in an MS marketing/recruiting campaign that I couldn't opt out of.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#60

Post by oblio »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #55
oblio wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People tend to run away from physical, backbreaking work. It's hard to do this kind of job when you're 50 or 60 and with physical work the risk of death or injury is also higher. Plus it's harder to move up the financial and social ladder.

Then maybe we, as a culture, should work harder on not looking down on people who do the actual labor of keeping civilization afloat.

Well, good luck with that.

It's pretty much universal that people appreciate some kinds of work and look down on others.

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