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Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

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Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#41

Post by notenoughhorses »

readingnews wrote: post #18

As a professor in a computer science department at a state run university (that has one of the oldest CS departments in the nation), I actually am far more afraid of the book publishers than "big tech". They are going down the road of "who needs uni, just use our text, our online learning aids, our online _courses_"... With each new ad from the textbook publishing company, I see a push to have learners just use their…

I’m doing a CS degree now, mostly lower level classes now. I find that teaching well does make a difference. Interestingly, when my professors use slides provided to them by the textbook company, I generally find it much harder to be engaged by watching their lecture. Compare to professors who make custom material and truly have some skill in presenting it.

Professors who choose to use the full suite of textbook, plus textbook provided slides, plus electronic auto graded homework might save themselves some time, but definitely are less effective educators, in my limited experiences.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#42

Post by oblio »

fock wrote: post #37

And meanwhile, the law governing the good, state-funded and controlled university system in Bavaria, Germany is modernized: "removing all the shackles from universities in their way of expenditure and earning money" (state guarantees any debt though). Some bon-mots: - Universities can change themselves to be governed like a foundation - no limit on pay of professors and administrator - no limit on fees, though they h…

So, US solutions :-(

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#43

Post by stateprof »

readingnews wrote: post #18

As a professor in a computer science department at a state run university (that has one of the oldest CS departments in the nation), I actually am far more afraid of the book publishers than "big tech". They are going down the road of "who needs uni, just use our text, our online learning aids, our online _courses_"... With each new ad from the textbook publishing company, I see a push to have learners just use their…

Just to add another anecdote: I'm also a CS professor at a well-known state university. We are free to choose whatever books we want for classes. To the best of my knowledge, these choices are not even reviewed. We are also free to use no textbook and just hand out lecture notes or whatever.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#44

Post by greenkey »

asutekku wrote: post #15
greenkey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students today have become quite reliant on Google Docs essentially putting almost all of their classwork out on the web. What if it were to fail? That’s different than it used to be when each student needed to handwrite or type up a paper without SAAS that could break, and those students aren’t prepping to work for Google.

And I’m pretty happy that students use nowadays google docs. Sure, it’s propiertary and can break at any point, but man if it does not make collaboration easier.

So: total reliance on someone giving something away for free that could break or be taken away at any time and you have no privacy- that’s ok, even if they’re not going to hire you later?

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#45

Post by chrisseaton »

fumblebee wrote: post #23

My CS department formed an "industry partnership" with Microsoft (circa 2015). All of a sudden, we were made to spend time learning Azure, we were given Surface Tablets for building apps, there were guest lectures by Microsoft employees, we were prompted to apply for MS internships, etc. What the department intended to be a harmless collaboration, turned out to be an aggressive marketing push by Microsoft for hearts…

> there were guest lectures by Microsoft employees

Given that MS employs some seriously world-leading computer science academics, isn't this a great thing? I wish I got lectures from people like this!

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#46

Post by uryga »

greenkey wrote: post #13
gambiting wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The purpose of Universities is to uphold, expand and disseminate human culture, not to prepare people for a career in the industry. Like, I personally agree with you, but then I also think that we don't have the right to define it as such. There's plenty of people who think that the main goal of a university(at least in scientific/engineering fields) should be to prepare people for working in the industry. Equally,…

Students today have become quite reliant on Google Docs essentially putting almost all of their classwork out on the web. What if it were to fail? That’s different than it used to be when each student needed to handwrite or type up a paper without SAAS that could break, and those students aren’t prepping to work for Google.

> What if it were to fail?

isn't that the price you pay for using any online sharing thingy? you gain easy sharing+access (because it's "on someone else's computer"), but lose control. if it makes information easily accessible (contrast with xeroxing paper docs), i think it's a decent trade-off.

it'd be nice if we weren't reliant on one service provider, but idk any good alternatives.

> those students aren’t prepping to work for Google.

i don't get this part. would you criticize the widespread usage of MS Office as "those people aren't prepping to work for Microsoft"?

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#47

Post by blackbear_ »

LatteLazy wrote: post #39
blackbear_ wrote: post #2

This is all wrong. The purpose of Universities is to uphold, expand and disseminate human culture, not to prepare people for a career in the industry. Big tech should not be allowed to piggyback on the reputation of educational institutions to push their products and the latest fads at the expense of the fundamentals.

Respectfully, you can't tell universities what their purpose is unless you're prepared to fund it. When these places got the majority of their funding from the state, the state could expect high minded ideals and social outcomes. But now their not, universities need to cater to their customers. Their customers are students, they expect a degree, an "experience" and a job at the end. Universities either need to provid…

That's because money is king in the US, but in many other countries universities are affordable for everybody. And I am indeed very happy that my taxes go to universities after I myself benefited from it.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#48

Post by kodoque2 »

They should just open their own vocational school (or open up their own internal training center if they have one), you could say that they risk losing the students to other companies but if they focus on their own need and technology, inertia will go a long way keeping the student.

For the student that just want the training for a good paying job (no shame in that, there is still the internet and the various edx-like program to supplement teaching) a highly-focused, low cost and fast degree could be a perfect solution.

Another advantage for the company, we all know that while CS are good to teach strong theoretical background, all the tooling is usually learned on the go. Take microsoft for example, imagine how efficient it would be to have a student learn in a completely integrated environnement and perfectly use microsoft tools (mastering visual studio is an art in itself) at the end of the training.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#49

Post by DannyBee »

I have no idea why anyone thinks this is new, it's been done forever, because it's effective. The article tries to make it seem like only altruistic donations existed in the past, but that's very wrong.

Back when I was in college 20 years ago, Microsoft had a program to do this.

Part of it was doing things like :

1. Hiring students as liaisons to represent and advocate for MS stuff at the school.

2. Giving away free copies of software away to CS departments and students in exchange.

3. Try to help get these things on the curriculum/etc (often in conjunction with #2)

4. Find opportunities for MS to donate computer labs and other meaningful things in exchange for people being taught visual studio/etc.

(How far they would go depended on where in the top-N programs it was, etc)

This is the genesis of a number of the Microsoft-named computer labs in US universities.

Re: Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments

#50

Post by kodoque2 »

vmception wrote: post #16
Judgmentality wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Big Tech largely ignores Tier 2 and Tier 3 schools for on campus recruiting, while imagining that the intelligence community has better developers I don't think the general consensus is that intelligence organizations have better developers than big tech. I think the rule of thumb is the better the pay, the better the quality.

There is a pervasive view that they have scifi technology that someone had to program I think after various leaks that idea did evaporate a lot

Frankly the ANT catalog had some amazing stuff, but I think all the really cool tools are developed bespoke at small boutique company.
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