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My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

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Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#151

Post by ac29 »

hnarn wrote: post #48

It seems like this issue can be largely circumvented by the fact that at least on iOS, giving location data now requires much more interaction from the user? Every time a new app asks for your location, you can select whether you want to give it that information all the time, or only while using the app. Another thing that I've started using recently is NextDNS[1], and it's amazing the amount of tracker garbage that'…

> Every time a new app asks for your location, you can select whether you want to give it that information all the time, or only while using the app.

This is exactly how it works on Android as well (since version 10, IIRC).

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#152

Post by mdpopescu »

distances wrote: post #141
mdpopescu wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this "argument from incredulity". It has leaked - you found out about it. Do you want them to publish an article in NY Times saying "yes, we spy on you all the time"? Do you want a personalized letter? What, exactly, is the form of this "leak" you expect would happen if this were true?

Just in case you are serious here: a random anecdote on a forum discussion doesn't count for anything, definitely not for a "leak". That parent message had a wild claim which of course requires serious proof. Edit: since you're asking, proof could be multiple testimonials from ex-engineers working on the project or a peer-reviewed article in a serious journal. Until that this is in the same bin with healing crystals…

Right. Testimonials in violation of their NDAs.

Whistleblowers never prosper, at least in the US. Too many examples, take Stingray for a less controversial one. What was the result? Crickets. Exactly what would be the incentive for those engineers?

Myself, I'm a Bayesian and I grew up in a communist country, which means I start from "of course everyone is spying on me, all the time" and require strong evidence to change my mind.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#153

Post by Hamuko »

mdpopescu wrote: post #152
distances wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case you are serious here: a random anecdote on a forum discussion doesn't count for anything, definitely not for a "leak". That parent message had a wild claim which of course requires serious proof. Edit: since you're asking, proof could be multiple testimonials from ex-engineers working on the project or a peer-reviewed article in a serious journal. Until that this is in the same bin with healing crystals…

Right. Testimonials in violation of their NDAs. Whistleblowers never prosper, at least in the US. Too many examples, take Stingray for a less controversial one. What was the result? Crickets. Exactly what would be the incentive for those engineers? Myself, I'm a Bayesian and I grew up in a communist country, which means I start from "of course everyone is spying on me, all the time" and require strong evidence to cha…

>Right. Testimonials in violation of their NDAs.

You're expecting 100% of the engineers at Facebook (or previously at Facebook) that know about this to comply with the NDA. And history shows that 100% of Facebook employees will not keep quiet about Facebook doing bad/illegal things.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#154

Post by Lio »

Moru wrote: post #129
surround wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the sum of 35,000 NOK (3,300 EUR / 4,000 USD), we got access to location data showing where tens of thousands of Norwegians had travelled in 2019. > One of them was 31-year-old Karl Bjarne Bernhardsen from Stavanger. The information made it easy for us to identify him in the data that – according to the data provider – had been anonymised. Here’s that article: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c…

What causes me the most irritation (to put it mildly) is that I bought the Sygic navigator that seems to be the source of this data. And still they sell my data? Just last week they forced me to agree to some new rules to be able to use the app but I already bought it 7 years ago. I will be requesting my money back as stated by that agreement, and request a GDPR data dump for moving my data to another provider.

Sygic don't even have a Privacy Policy link on their homepage, you have to dig for it a buried legal documents page.

Your privacy is not something they care about except as something to sell to others.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#155

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

strwbarie wrote: post #150
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are way to fight back. If you choose to. Convenience usually comes first it seems.

How? What are the best ways to fight back?

I don't have a smartphone. That alone will prevent browsing habits being picked up by parasitic apps etc on a phone. What I browse at home I have more control over with blocklists etc and disabling js.

I rarely carry my dumphone around, if someone needs me they can leave a message. That takes care of tracking by cell station.

There are times I'd like to have a dumphone on me, eg. when meeting people, so at some point I'll get dumphone #2 not linked to me.

If possible, pay cash rather than a credit card. I have done this before but in the uk this was getting more difficult and may not be possible, I don't know. There are always ways around that with grey areas.

At higher levels pressure your government or use the local regulations to push back when a company seems to be behaving unethically.

I'm sure there's more.

But convenience triumphs and all you can see is "I need smartphone". You won't do any of this. People who ask how will never do, or they wouldn't be asking the question to which the answer(s) are obvious.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#156

Post by csbartus »

superkuh wrote: post #81
csbartus wrote: post #79

I stopped to use smartphones in 2018. Since then I have a Nokia 3310 new model, with Facebook installed. However the wi-fi is turned on around 10 minutes per month, in best case. What I've immediately observed after switching to the new phone that I'm receiving more precisely targeted ads. Before, on smartphone no adds were relevant, after the smartphone new adds were all relevant. My guess was the phone / the cellul…

Even if your use a dumb phone with no real operating system or applications if you carry an operating cell phone your location is tracked and stored. In the US this data is stored for 2-5 years minimum depending on which Telco you use. It is used and sold just like in this article. Tracking is how cell phones and cell basestations work. You cannot have one without the other. The better the clocks in the base stations…

The test was repeated many times, screenshots with the next day social media ads were registered. My carrier is Orange in Romania.

Just in case somebody wants to reproduce the experiment.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#157

Post by csbartus »

zug_zug wrote: post #86
csbartus wrote: post #79

I stopped to use smartphones in 2018. Since then I have a Nokia 3310 new model, with Facebook installed. However the wi-fi is turned on around 10 minutes per month, in best case. What I've immediately observed after switching to the new phone that I'm receiving more precisely targeted ads. Before, on smartphone no adds were relevant, after the smartphone new adds were all relevant. My guess was the phone / the cellul…

If you have full confidence in your theory, you should perform a controlled experiment for statistical significance. Say the name of 20 places on a call (but never you nor any facebook contacts go there) [and have 20 controls you never mention]. Then count ads over the next month. You can conclude something to a certain confidence level if the results show you were right.

That might be the right approach, thanks for the tip. Maybe somebody else will do a better testing. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact non-smartphones / carriers might / perhaps spy in the same way than apps.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#158

Post by csbartus »

smeyer wrote: post #93
csbartus wrote: post #79

I stopped to use smartphones in 2018. Since then I have a Nokia 3310 new model, with Facebook installed. However the wi-fi is turned on around 10 minutes per month, in best case. What I've immediately observed after switching to the new phone that I'm receiving more precisely targeted ads. Before, on smartphone no adds were relevant, after the smartphone new adds were all relevant. My guess was the phone / the cellul…

Are you sure that none of your friends are looking up the predefined brand names? Do any of your friends go home and immediately google the predefined brand name?

The first time I was realizing the phone listens to the conversations was Christmas eve, when talking about gifts. One gift came from a global brand. Next day I saw the ads. I didn't googled for sure for that brand on my end nor posted anything on social media. And on my parents' end, who received the gift, I'm pretty sure their internet skills are not enough for a brand search.

Anyway, I don't want to convince anybody here, I might be pretty wrong. Just helping others who might have the job to verify all these findings.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#159

Post by jtsiskin »

jerry1979 wrote: post #85
derwiki wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely a coincidence: https://www.avg.com/en/signal/facebook-listening-private-con... If it were true I feel confident that information would have leaked by now.

Couldn't the facebook app just listen for signal fingerprints? For example, Nielsen embeds digital fingerprints into songs so that it can tell what you listen to without listening to the full audio stream. They simply listen for a certain pattern, and make note when they detect the pattern. You could do the same with with "coffee" or "jogging" or "yoga mat". You don't listen to the conversation audio, you detect audi…

They would still need to enable the Audio hardware. That would be noticed.

Re: My Phone Was Spying on Me, So I Tracked Down the Surveillants

#160

Post by bjarneh »

martamorena9182 wrote: post #107
dalbasal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What isn't understandable?

Being able to read the words doesn't mean the comment makes sense. Reading it over and over again, yeah sure I can understand it, but I don't see any "point" or relation to the original comment. Some people just seem to feel "smart" by wording things as convoluted as possible, using fancy words and references. The truth is, it is much harder to express thoughts clearly with simple, yet elegant words. Mostly because t…

> Some people just seem to feel "smart" by wording things as convoluted as possible, using fancy words and references.

If nobody did this, we would not have political sciences :-)

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