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Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

thehill.com

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Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#21

Post by jimmyswimmy »

purplecats wrote: post #8
unnouinceput wrote: post #6

I would expect once you get your vaccination this to be a non-issue. Like any other viruses that I'm vaccinated against, if I catch it my immune system would destroy it before I become a source myself. I mean isn't that the whole purpose of a vaccine? Also I do understand that is only 90% efficacy, which means if I am among the unlucky 10% then I'll become infected and become both a spreader and most likely develop t…

I'd be very interested in getting vaccinated against the virus once it's been released. I'd prefer, however, to just get the vaccine so that if I catch it my immune system would destroy it before I become a source myself. I wish they'd make an option (perhaps at a significantly higher cost) so that you can get the vaccine injection without miscellaneous non-vaccine compounds injected in the solution as well.

I'm the opposite of a biology expert, but from what I've read, the "miscellaneous non-vaccine compounds" in the solution are adjuvants which make the vaccine more effective by provoking the immune system into a response. Without those "non-vaccine compounds" the vaccine itself could be no more effective than a shot of sterile saline - which itself is probably another "non-vaccine compound."

Perhaps if you're referring to something else you could spell it out.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#22

Post by Turing_Machine »

solinent wrote: post #10

I hate to be that person, but I'm personally more worried about the virus mutating under the increased selection pressure. We only defeated polio with a >99% effective vaccine, and the research for this vaccine isn't even available.

Unlike older vaccines (such as polio vaccine) which generally used weakened or killed whole virus particles (and which occasionally produced infectious cases, due to the virus not being as weak or dead as intended), this vaccine contains no whole virus particles and thus cannot result in an infectious case.

It contains RNA that cause the patient's cells to emit proteins normally produced by the viral infection (which can then be recognized by the immune system), but contains none of the genetic material required to produce standalone infectious virus particles.

This is a new thing; these will the first vaccines using this technology to be approved.

The chairman likely isn't worried about the vaccine itself producing infections, but rather does not know whether a vaccinated patient might also develop an active infection before the vaccine takes effect.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#23

Post by elicash »

I've seen this point made repeatedly, but haven't seen what scientists think is LIKELY -- based on similar vaccines, based on initial data, whatever.

I don't know if scientists GENUINELY have no clue, or if maybe we think it'll likely be good news but can't say it yet because we're worried that people will get a vaccine and then behave irresponsibly.

It sounds like we're going to start giving this vaccine out without certainty on this point, so maybe give a sense of likelihoods for the possibilities. Maybe Pfizer can't because of lawsuits or something, but experts could certainly weigh in for articles like this. It seems like we're afraid of trusting people with the best info we have because we're worried they'll stop wearing masks and throw parties and such. I don't think withholding info is a great way to build trust.

Health experts should feel empowered to say "We think X but only with (let's say) 10% certainty" because there's no study specifically on this topic for COVID. They can always add "without 100% certainty we need to all continue to wear masks because that the stakes are so severe on hospitalizations and death."

Instead, it seems like they hold back info out of concern the public cannot be trusted.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#24

Post by AndrewBissell »

chub500 wrote: post #19
AndrewBissell wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the vaccine is only useful for reducing COVID severity and doesn't help prevent spread, then I see no reason why it should be required for anyone for whom an infection is unlikely to result in hospitalization, i.e. anyone outside the well known high risk groups.

Not sure why this is being downvoted. I think your logic is sound. Typically vaccinations don't work this way though. AFAIK contagion is proportional to viral load which is inversely proportional to immune response (via some complex function over time from initial infection).

I certainly agree that vaccinations typically don't work this way, which is why I find it very odd that there seems to be an effort to quickly handwave away these uncertainties with "well all vaccines are like this."

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#25

Post by AndrewBissell »

tylerhou wrote: post #20
AndrewBissell wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until now the line I have kept hearing is that there is no such thing as herd immunity except that which is realized through universal immunization. Now that we're not sure the vaccine will actually work in this way, the new line of reasoning is "well it's just supposed to protect you individually from the disease, not stop it from spreading."

> Until now the line I have kept hearing is that there is no such thing as herd immunity except that which is realized through universal immunization. You were either hearing the wrong information or misunderstanding it. Herd immunity is absolutely real, and can occur if a virus infects enough people (or enough people are vaccinated). When more people are immune, it will be harder for the virus to spread to a new hos…

> You were either hearing the wrong information or misunderstanding it. Herd immunity is absolutely real, and can occur if a virus infects enough people (or enough people are vaccinated).

I was hearing it from people arguing against the Swedish approach of managing the virus without lockdowns. "Encouraging people to go out and get infected" (i.e. actively trying to accelerate the spread and doing nothing to minimize exposure for high risk groups) is not something I see being seriously advocated even by lockdown opponents, though it is often used as a strawman version of their arguments.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#27

Post by sgc »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #9
unnouinceput wrote: post #6

I would expect once you get your vaccination this to be a non-issue. Like any other viruses that I'm vaccinated against, if I catch it my immune system would destroy it before I become a source myself. I mean isn't that the whole purpose of a vaccine? Also I do understand that is only 90% efficacy, which means if I am among the unlucky 10% then I'll become infected and become both a spreader and most likely develop t…

Until now the line I have kept hearing is that there is no such thing as herd immunity except that which is realized through universal immunization. Now that we're not sure the vaccine will actually work in this way, the new line of reasoning is "well it's just supposed to protect you individually from the disease, not stop it from spreading."

Who is promoting this "new line of reasoning"? I don't hear that at all. OP here was simply stating that the vaccine is not 100% effective, a completely different point than the one you threw out as a response.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#28

Post by purplecats »

jimmyswimmy wrote: post #21
purplecats wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very interested in getting vaccinated against the virus once it's been released. I'd prefer, however, to just get the vaccine so that if I catch it my immune system would destroy it before I become a source myself. I wish they'd make an option (perhaps at a significantly higher cost) so that you can get the vaccine injection without miscellaneous non-vaccine compounds injected in the solution as well.

I'm the opposite of a biology expert, but from what I've read, the "miscellaneous non-vaccine compounds" in the solution are adjuvants which make the vaccine more effective by provoking the immune system into a response. Without those "non-vaccine compounds" the vaccine itself could be no more effective than a shot of sterile saline - which itself is probably another "non-vaccine compound." Perhaps if you're referrin…

I am, obviously, referring to something else.

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#29

Post by redisman »

purplecats wrote: post #28
jimmyswimmy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite of a biology expert, but from what I've read, the "miscellaneous non-vaccine compounds" in the solution are adjuvants which make the vaccine more effective by provoking the immune system into a response. Without those "non-vaccine compounds" the vaccine itself could be no more effective than a shot of sterile saline - which itself is probably another "non-vaccine compound." Perhaps if you're referrin…

I am, obviously, referring to something else.

How mysterious

Re: Pfizer chairman: We're not sure if someone can transmit Covid after vaccination

#30

Post by soupfordummies »

hprotagonist wrote: post #14

I certainly intend to stay masked up post-jab(s). I think a month or so after the final dose it will be at the point where any viral load i might be spreading would be pretty much trustable to be at trivial levels, so that's my minimum duration. After that, I'll continue to follow public guidance from local health folks. I don't mind masking up for flights/travel for a bit, or whatever, either, if it shakes out that…

That’s an excellent point about the shoes that I hadn’t put together. I think the vast majority of us think the shoe thing is stupid but we do it cause it’s that or not fly.

If only we could get mandated masks, I think we’d already be out of the woods. Although I regularly see <2 unmasked folks total in the grocery stores around me, it’s a fairly liberal area so I’m just rambling now so have a good safe holiday time.

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