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S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

reuters.com

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Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#411

Post by beaner »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #401
doggosphere wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people "save" in a fiat "currency" whose value is not linked to anything intrinsic, whose supply can magically be increased at the discretion of a few powerful individuals, and whose value has been declining relative to almost any tradeable assets. What a time to be alive. No wonder the M2 money supply is at an all time high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic…

Central banking as it exists in the US is designed to encourage spending. One person’s spending becomes another’s income. Having finite dollars and increasing demand leads to a currency that only increases in value. If an asset increases in value, there is an incentive to acquire it and not part with it.

Many believe this to be a good thing. To discuss it we'd have to go all the way down the keynesian vs. austrian rabbit hole. Someone here might be up for it. I'm content to sit on the sidelines and watch it continue to succeed and speak for itself.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#412

Post by vmception »

lowdest wrote: post #381
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dot-com bubble played out over a decade. Bitcoin’s price history has only been significant for 3 years. It otherwise looked like any other penny asset.

3 years to whom? I've been following the price since the first "bubble" up to $200, in early 2013.

That one from one dollar to $32 is the best of all time

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#413

Post by abetterday »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #276

I’m enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people “invest” in a digital “currency” that you cannot spend, does not produce cash flow, and whose values are determined by other shmucks buying it from previous shmucks. What a time to be alive. No wonder the S&P 500 CAPE ratio is beyond the 1929 high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic value is of anything. Investing in companies that don’t make a profit,…

There is a whole mindset that has invigorated growth investing and has been invigorated by it: success is more luck and social proof than correctness or work + winner will take all = illusion management is key work + valuations don’t matter, but getting in does.

It underpins major perspectives on investment, monetary and gov policy, and individual agency. It is infuriating, but it has worked spectacularly for a long time and has just enough truth in it to keep people building castles in the air.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#414

Post by ric2b »

root_axis wrote: post #289
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all practical senses it is scarce. It is the protocol and consensus of the people using it that makes it scarce. If you disagree, go ahead just make your own BTC and see how "easy" it is to convince other people to use it instead of BTC or some other mainstream coin. (Some people even tried exactly that...)

You can't really know how easy it might be for me. For example, if my name was Vitalik Buterin or Elon Musk or even Donald Trump, I could trivially create my own cryptocurrency and a lot of people would use it.

But it still wouldn't change the scarcity of Bitcoin.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#415

Post by andrewmcwatters »

beaner wrote: post #411
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central banking as it exists in the US is designed to encourage spending. One person’s spending becomes another’s income. Having finite dollars and increasing demand leads to a currency that only increases in value. If an asset increases in value, there is an incentive to acquire it and not part with it.

Many believe this to be a good thing. To discuss it we'd have to go all the way down the keynesian vs. austrian rabbit hole. Someone here might be up for it. I'm content to sit on the sidelines and watch it continue to succeed and speak for itself.

Yeah, I agree. That’s actually a really interesting discussion, too!

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#416

Post by andrewmcwatters »

jkhdigital wrote: post #408
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central banking as it exists in the US is designed to encourage spending. One person’s spending becomes another’s income. Having finite dollars and increasing demand leads to a currency that only increases in value. If an asset increases in value, there is an incentive to acquire it and not part with it.

No matter how much I read on the subject, I always feel like the true nature and complexity of money eludes me. I don’t mean to disparage your comments, but I believe they reflect a lack of appreciation for the magnitude of the subject.

I agree with you. I don’t mean to suggest economic machinations are trivial, but some of the comments in this subthread raise counterpoints that I think casually dismiss the original points.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#417

Post by ZephyrBlu »

notreallytrue wrote: post #373
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it's not, and yet it's still valueable.

Honest question: in 20 years would you prefer to own a 21 milionth of bitcoin (1 bitcoin) or 21 milionth of gold (~8kgs of gold)? Not thinking about the value of it, but of its future usefulness as value store and as mean of payment

Bitcoin 100%, because of the optionality and network effects.

I don't believe you can separate the value of Bitcoin and it's usefulness because the more valuable Bitcoin is, the more useful it becomes.

The more people who hold Bitcoin, the more scarce it becomes and therefore the more valuable it becomes. In 20 years, Bitcoin could go to 0, or become a widely used currency and skyrocket in value.

Once the number of Bitcoin holders reaches equilibrium then the value would remain stable, but we are definitely not at that point yet.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#418

Post by s5300 »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #357
centimeter wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that you cannot spend, You can spend it. > does not produce cash flow, Neither commodities nor currencies produce cash flow. People still reasonably invest in both. > and whose values are determined by other shmucks buying it from previous shmucks. The value of every other asset in existence is also determined by this process.

Bought any coffees (in person) with the crypto-currency of the week recently?

So I asked this cute barista if she'd be able to accept a fraction of my TSLA stonks for my coffee

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#419

Post by ZephyrBlu »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #264
mettamage wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is the power of bitcoin right? Now I can live in South America and get near-instant (crypto)currency transfers as well.

In fact what parent is saying is that fast transaction speeds are not something that are solely enabled by bitcoin. There is absolutely no technical reason why transfers have to take days between banks. That's just down to the banks in your country having a crappy infrastructure. In fact, among the interesting properties of Bitcoin, I'd rate transaction speeds as the least relevant - chiefly because network throughpu…

> There is absolutely no technical reason why transfers have to take days between banks. That's just down to the banks in your country having a crappy infrastructure

This is one of the reasons crypto is a great solution though. You don't have to rely on institutions for the infrastructure.

Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021

#420

Post by ur-whale »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #410
sithlord wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't buy stocks because the company "makes money" you buy stocks because the expectation is that they will make more money in the future than they are now. Also, stocks don't really produce cash flow either - A dividend drops the price of each stock by the equivelent amount. So if you get a 3% dividend a year, the stock price is dropping by the same amount. I will say, it is easier to quantify that Apple/Google/…

No, that’s pretty much the number one reason someone would purchase equity in a company. I don’t know where the concept of dividends dropping the value of a company came from, but from a transactional point of view it doesn’t make sense. Sure, there are more earnings that have not been retained for increasing future earnings, but the value does not drop correspondingly. That’s just not how companies are valued. 3% of…

>I don’t know where the concept of dividends dropping the value of a company came from,

Well, there's taxes for example.

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