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AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

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Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#451

Post by sidibe »

mkolodny wrote: post #428
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more relevant, but probably doesn’t tell the whole story considering she very heavily hints that she gave them a list of demands or she would resign, and Google just accepted her resignation.

"Timnit responded with an email requiring that a number of conditions be met in order for her to continue working at Google, including revealing the identities of every person who Megan and I had spoken to and consulted as part of the review of the paper and the exact feedback. Timnit wrote that if we didn’t meet these demands, she would leave Google and work on an end date." We don't know the full list of demands, b…

I don't think more demands can make a set of demands less unreasonable unless it's an either-or type list of demands.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#452

Post by Andraia »

korse wrote: post #265
anonvenger wrote: post #160

The character revealing bit is this: > Have you ever heard of someone getting “feedback” on a paper through a privileged and confidential document to HR? Does that sound like a standard procedure to you or does it just happen to people like me who are constantly dehumanized? She was told by her bosses boss to retract a paper. Whatever is it that paper, and whatever the reasons or the delivery method are, there is not…

Why is this post flagged? I too was expecting more than 'social media venting' and am surprised that this article made it this far.

On HN, a downvote is an attempt to make a conflicting opinion disappear, and flagging is a super-downvote.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#453

Post by pinewurst »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #408
contemporary343 wrote: post #292

It looks like the paper was critical of large language models: https://www.fastcompany.com/90582375/timnit-gebru-google-fir... The original article has been updated with Jeff Dean's response, while a member of Gebru's team (who still works at Google Brain) states that Dean's email is misleading and inaccurate: https://twitter.com/alexhanna/status/1334579764573691904 As I understand it: The paper had already been subm…

What I don't understand is why nobody discusses this from the point of view of academic freedom and research integrity. My boss says "retract your paper" and I retract my paper? In what dystopian sci-fi novel? That's just mad.

Because this isn't academia, despite the trappings. If I'm working for Reynolds Tobacco Research and wish to publish a paper on tobacco causation of cancer, they're doing to stop my publication under their auspices.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#454

Post by elevenoh »

1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

Thanks for sharing.

Curious: How did she 'force him to give up on twitter'?

There's a lotta companies who've hired ticking time bombs like this. They don't get why they were truly hired.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#455

Post by deanCommie »

1024core wrote: post #449

This person forced Yann LeCun (one of the top 3 AI/ML researchers today, head of Facebook AI, and an ML researcher since the 80s) to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet of his: https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1274782757907030016 She lives her life attacking people who she disagrees with, and brings in race/gender into any conflict where she's involved. I am surprised Google had hired her, beca…

> forced ... to give up on Twitter after she took exception to this tweet

Can you provide a source for this. What did she say?

There are legitimate criticisms of Yann's tweet. Just because he is technically correct about how ML works doesn't mean that what he is saying isn't ALSO a classical dismissal of the concerns people have with AI.

The issue isn't that ML is evil or racist. The issue is that if it is used too objectively detached from the reality of the world it operates in, the outcomes could be used for evil or with racist intents.

AI scientists like LeCun handwaves away concerns about diversity in data sources, just as his employer handwaves away concerns about engagement algorithms surfacing misinformation on the platform.

But the societal consequences remain for others to deal with.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#456

Post by dekhn »

xibalba wrote: post #361
chrisbroadfoot wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about that thread shows she's toxic?

For me, toxicity often boils down to these questions: Are you acting in good faith or not? Are you acting to resolve a disagreement and advance knowledge, or is the primary function of your speech to inflame and provoke? Do you accept that it is possible for smart people to disagree with you, or do you believe any disagreement is completely unacceptable? When I view Gebru's Twitter argument with Lecun throug the abov…

Wow, this is really well articulated and a great analysis of modern Twitter-driven social complaint. Please consider expanding this (IE, iterating over the various techniques used to "win" social arguments on Twitter). You can see her other tweets and replies, but I'd also include and contrast less progressive tweeters (such as the president's supporters).

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#457

Post by Andraia »

uoaei wrote: post #313
compiler-guy wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She said, "If you can't meet these conditions, I will resign effective ." Google said, "We can't meet these conditions, we accept your resignation and move it to ."

No, she didn't say that. She said she may set a date in the future for her resignation. That is non-committal and non-specific. Your characterization is inaccurate.

> No, she didn't say that.

Citation needed. Gebru could publish it — she's not exactly silent — but chooses not to.

It's perfectly reasonable to think that someone hiding something has something to hide.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#458

Post by dig1 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #294

>> A cross functional team then reviewed the paper as part of our regular process and the authors were informed that it didn’t meet our bar for publication and were given feedback about why. It ignored too much relevant research — for example, it talked about the environmental impact of large models, but disregarded subsequent research showing much greater efficiencies. Similarly, it raised concerns about bias in lan…

> if you are a researcher in academia you won't be asked to retract your research because it makes someone look bad.

Not entirely accurate (worked in academia). If your research makes someone look bad or have a chance to jeopardize financing, usually you won't get a chance even to send the paper, because it will be shut down in your research center by either your mentor or other peers.

Sound mentors are well connected with publishers, and even if you somehow send it under the radar (which will be the end of your research career), someone will call either your mentor or management for confirmation.

> she didn't present the results of her research in a light that favours the company's goals.

The same is happening in academia, but let's not open Pandora's box :)

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#459

Post by sujinge9 »

deanCommie wrote: post #450
parliament32 wrote: post #26

I don't think "fired" is the right choice of words -- she gave an ultimatum offering to resign, and they accepted her resignation. Is accepting a resignation the same as firing someone? > Thanks for making your conditions clear. We cannot agree to #1 and #2 as you are requesting. We respect your decision to leave Google as a result, and we are accepting your resignation. https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364…

Wife says to her programmer husband, "Go to the store and buy a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, buy a dozen." Husband returns with 12 loaves of bread. Most software engineers can read the above joke, and laugh at themselves, then go ahead and upvote your comment not realizing that it is EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Employee: "This is extremely important to me. If you can't address what is important to me, then I can't w…

Sure, but you can't give an ultimatum like "... then I can't work here anymore" and not follow through with it.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#460

Post by sorenjan »

AI ethics researcher sounds like a fluff position anyway, she got hired to give Google a shine of inclusiveness to the non technical people that think AI is going to take over the world and doesn't understand that the current state of it is nothing more than pattern recognition and statistics.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it still bothers me that people like this get highly paid positions to point out problems seemingly without any technical knowledge. And then she's delusional enough to think that she can misbehave and make ultimatums?

The article links to a "landmark study" that shows that black women are underrepresented in training datasets and therefore misclassified more. Sure, that's important to fix, but it sounds like an undergraduate project, and it's not something I would call AI.

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