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Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

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Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An intelligent person can communicate important information through jest. In this ability is found charisma and charm - important characteristics for a diplomat. We wouldn't want our adversaries to think us dull.

I found it incredibly dull and far from charismatic.

It’s quite hard to produce humour that is enjoyed by everyone. To each their own.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#52
post #11
post #9

I have to guess that the extreme tongue-in-cheek quality of the whole presentation played on the expectation that the Soviets would have access to this, themselves, before the meeting, and would find it very difficult to read between the lines and know what it was really saying. More likely it was meant entirely for the Soviets' amusement/confusion, that they would have been obliged to pretend they had not seen, and…

The simplest explanation is that people in the US gov't act and believe this kind of stuff. It aligns with every piece of leaked private correspondence from these people, as well as public statements at the time and now. If anything the last 4 years (mostly composed of "professional politicians" despite those at the top maybe being outsiders!) should be real "mask off" to the supposed genius and amazing tradecraft of…

I have no idea what you're getting at. While the memo is intended to be humorous, it still requires vast knowledge of the issues to write and/or fully understand.

Humour and professionalism are not incompatible. I know Trump liked to pretend that he is being criticised for failing to adequately play-act the sort of stiff formality his basic understanding of "being presidential" encompasses. But that was never the case.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#53
post #45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

successful socialist country Does such a thing exist? What do you count as success? Just a few years earlier, and driven by the same socialist expansion strategy, another developing state turned socialist, Cambodia, with active help from Moscow. Is this what you have in mind as success? Wasn't Sankara a charismatic leader, and military man who came to power by a coup d'état ? Have you looked at the track record of mi…

His wikipedia entry, which has no doubt had the usual battles over sources and bias, reports: > His foreign policies were centred on anti-imperialism, with his government eschewing all foreign aid, pushing for odious debt reduction, nationalising all land and mineral wealth and averting the power and influence of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank. His domestic policies were focused on preventing famine w…

Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin ... made similar promises. Did they deliver?

Political movements cannot meaningfully be evaluated by what they promise, for the all promise the world, but by

- Before they come to power: by what they are likely to deliver (which is predicted from what similar policies have lead to in the past).

- Post facto: what they did deliver.

This is obvious. Everybody in this discussion is aware of this.

There is an interesting social phenomenon at play here, that deserves intellectual curiosity and explanation: there is no identifiable political ideology in the history of humanity that failed to deliver so hard and so often with identical policies, as the Marxist position via Leninist cadre parties. Yet even today, we we see apologias like pjc50's despite Marxist / Leninist cadre parties. I've even pointed to the A/B testing that were the division of Germany and Korea.

Many times people have tried to answer this question. I'm broadly in agreement with Nietzsche on this one ...

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll cop to not getting the reference. I'm 38, overly educated in the liberal arts, reasonably well read. My recent text threads include jokes about Herodotus, Bartleby, Frankie Valli, Jason Derulo, and Belle Delphine. Sometimes you're just in the tail end of the lucky 10,000.

On an individual level, it’s hard to argue with what a person knows or doesn’t. Regarding my assertion about the band’s relevance and impact in popular culture, wikipedia says the following: On the band - “Although their initial career lasted just two and a half years, they are regarded as one of the most groundbreaking acts in the history of popular music.” On the album - “It is frequently listed as the most influen…

Of course! I wasn't refuting your claims either to its popularity or significance. I was only acknowledging that there is very little in this world that boggles my mind somebody doesn't know. There's a long tail on acquiring knowledge.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#55
post #53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His wikipedia entry, which has no doubt had the usual battles over sources and bias, reports: > His foreign policies were centred on anti-imperialism, with his government eschewing all foreign aid, pushing for odious debt reduction, nationalising all land and mineral wealth and averting the power and influence of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank. His domestic policies were focused on preventing famine w…

Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin ... made similar promises. Did they deliver? Political movements cannot meaningfully be evaluated by what they promise, for the all promise the world, but by - Before they come to power: by what they are likely to deliver (which is predicted from what similar policies have lead to in the past). - Post facto: what they did deliver. This is obvious. Everybody in this discussion is aware of this. Th…

If we’re talking about governance failures, I’d argue that absolute monarchies also generally ended up failing at delivering results. There aren’t very many left for a reason.

Re: Briefing note: US Deputy Secretary Of State meeting with Andrei Gromyko (1985)

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An intelligent person can communicate important information through jest. In this ability is found charisma and charm - important characteristics for a diplomat. We wouldn't want our adversaries to think us dull.

I found it incredibly dull and far from charismatic.

I found the Russian.

Cheers! :)

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