US ends era of emotional support animals on planes • Hacker News Board

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#141

Post by tarboreus » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #92

CADBOT wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they don't need to be licensed. The only thing a business can ask is what tasks is the service dog trained to be formed. I do think it would be better off for everyone if there was a license though. I've known people with legitimate service dogs who have had that opinion even. They wish they had a document to prove their legitimacy, as they are constantly asked for a document that doesn't exist.

That requirement always felt weird. I can’t ask what disability a person has, but I can ask what the dog is supposed to do? Because if they say it helps alert to a seizure, I just learned they possibly have chronic seizures without actually asking that.

It's fair because it doesn't set a precedent in other areas. But yes, in practice it's odd.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#142

Post by flflfppp » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #134

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of people are very attached to their pets, there's nothing wrong with that. Particularly single people living alone without kids (I fall in that bucket). I'm in that category as well, but that by no means entitles me to abuse measures meant to help the genuinely disabled for my own convenience.

> by no means entitles me to abuse measures meant to help the genuinely disabled for my own convenience. The decision wasn't for my personal convenience. It's much more convenient to throw an animal in the cargo hold. It really is not fun to deal with an animal with you on a crowded plane. Convenience is not the motivating factor at least for me... it's simply treating the animal humanely, which to me means avoiding…

Then you should have absorbed the inconvenience of driving cross-country, not abusing a system meant to help people that need it.

Also, I'm perplexed by people's use of the word "humane" when it comes to pets. If you want to treat them humanely (as you would other humans), open your front door and let them walk out to freedom. I've owned and will own pets again...but it's preposterous to compare the animal to the human.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#143

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

13rac1 wrote: post #130

DoreenMichele wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little more complicated than that. Homeless people also will claim their pet is an emotional support animal. They are often homeless because they are disabled but being homeless means "Good luck jumping through bureaucratic hoops to register anything." Sometimes someone's life comes unraveled because their disability has never been properly identified and accommodated. Being able to say "I need this" without h…

I understand there is a huge grey area on this subject. I specifically refer to the abusers (the only label I am applying intentionally.) I didn't mention people who are homeless. A much better explanation than I can give at this time: http://brightside-susan.blogspot.com/2011/05/people-behaving... A quote from the article: > "Each time an employee has an encounter with a fake service dog (and yes, they know when you…

The first thing you linked to is the personal opinion of someone with what looks like a personal blog.

I have had a college class on Homelessness and Public Policy. I homeschooled my two gifted-learning disabled sons for years, which means I effectively ran a two student school under the laws of California for years. I also spent some years homeless in part due to my own disability.

Before I was diagnosed with a serious disability in my thirties, I was routinely dismissed by people around me as merely "lazy" (while being sick all the time and one of the top students of my graduating high school class).

Lots of people who claim their animal is a "service animal" are people whose lives are in the toilet, the system doesn't work for them and they have serious issues. Inability to prove need is not actually evidence of lying.

I have a dog phobia and don't like being around them. I am all for finding some means to make sure people keep their animals under control in public. I have had lots of negative experiences with assholes who will not control their dog and who feel I am obligated to meet their dog's emotional needs and all this kind of crappy thing.

Plenty of people being dismissed as "merely abusing the system" have a real need and "abusing the system" is their only means to try to meet it in a world that is routinely hostile to their needs.

It's really complicated. Trying to sort out a better policy is not simple at all.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#144

Post by bmgxyz » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #74

I kind of know why, but I think I'd like to have some sort of "super-normative" service for most things. No accommodations, no changes, no talk. You board your plane, stand on a conveyor and it takes you to your slot, you bring your own urine and poo bag if you want, the airline charges you for damage to the slot. No dogs, no cats, no nothing. No "can I get a this". For the DMV, you have a checklist and you walk up w…

These ideas have almost no empathy, and they frighten me. The world they describe is a dystopia.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#145

Post by Ansil849 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #59

Ansil849 wrote: post #44

I'm finding a lot of the comments in this thread to be hurtful. Yes, many were abusing the system to register pets as service animals. No, that is not a reason to forbid the practice which was genuinely helpful to people like myself who have a phobia of flying coupled with anxiety and having a service animal genuinely helps get through a flight without the need for medication. The problem is the desire to not devote…

The problem is the desire to not devote resources to verifying the legitimacy of individual claims and instead banning the practice wholesale. Honestly, why make a mockery of this? Chastise people who are obviously trolling or scamming the system. It would have required a lot of resources to verify every individual claim and that would have raised prices for everyone. The burden of proof has been shifted to where it…

That burden of proof has already existed in the form of having to file the requisite paperwork including a letter from a doctor as well as a specific animal behavior form. It was not just a matter of claiming $random_animal is an emotional support animal. The problem appears to be that airlines ignored the requisite paperwork or the paperwork was fraudulent (for example written by doctors who are family friends).

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#146

Post by jrochkind1 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #97

mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

There's also the grey area of self-medication. I generally trust people with physical disabilities to "self-medicate". If someone with a wheelchair says that something will help them live like a normal person, I'm inclined to think they're telling the truth. But an awful lot of mental health issues are ones where the people tend to make terrible choices when it comes to dealing with their mental health (not every dis…

I don't think criminalizing "poor coping strategies" is likely to be an effective intervention, if the health and well-being of the people engaging in them is your concern.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#147

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

vector_spaces wrote: post #79

Reading the comments on this thread is genuinely depressing. It's amazing how callous people can be to simply say "good" and move on, nevermind that people actually benefited massively from this and that most of those people used it in good faith, and likely did not attempt to bring ostriches and ponies aboard. Not to mention the comments that say something to the effect of "well even if it did help a few people, it…

There is a concerning amount of strawman comments that hinge on conflating service animals with emotional support animals. No one said anything about disabled people, we are talking about people who want their Caucasian Shepard to join them in economy class for no other reason than wanting their dog.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#148

Post by jrochkind1 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

"Registered" where/with whom? I don't believe there is any kind of "official registration" like this at all, in the USA.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#149

Post by crocodiletears » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:11 PM UTC

cj wrote: post #93

mwfunk wrote: post #70

I'm all in favor of people who need them having emotional support animals, but for as long as this has been a thing I have been totally shocked at how many people I personally know (who I thought were better people than this) completely abusing it to bring their pets with them everywhere (planes or anywhere else where you don't normally take pets). And joking about abusing the system, and joking about how awesome it…

Edit: Removed comment, sparked unconstructive discussion.

I love my dog. He's my best and most sycophantic friend. If I'm going anywhere he might be allowed, he's with me.

I'd be damned if I put him in a crate at the bottom of an airplane for 10-hours straight.

When I worked jobs as a janitor, and as a retail worker, I have at various times had clean up the shit, piss vomit, and any number of other bodily expulsions produced by 'emotional support' animals, invariably left untouched and without comment by their owners, or argued with people whose pets growl and bark at everyone if they aren't muzzled. I can't imagine being a flight attendant trying to manage that with a potentially belligerent owner for 10 hours on a plane.

No matter how well-behaved your animal is next time, if you aren't traveling over the ocean, please just drive, so you aren't putting the burden of your pet's presence of everyone else.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#150

Post by strstr » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #138

macdamaniac wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a pretty unpopular take on this, being married to someone with severe pet allergies. That take is, dogs (and cats) have no place on an airplane, and responsible adults shouldn't get pets that they can't find sitters for or board while they are away. Planes are enclosed-air spaces, and the allergens from your dog make anyone with allergies miserable for the entire duration of the flight. Every single time we en…

You are aware that people sometimes have to move, right? Not everyone wants to take their pets on planes just because they are going on vacation.

Yes, people need to move. Which would you prioritize? Pets or GP’s spouse?

Pets are a choice.