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AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

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Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#161

These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…

In a way it’s a good self-regulating mechanism for modern capitalism. Dominant companies slowly become paralysed by activist employees, letting nimbler competitors outflank them in the market.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#162

These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…

>Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to any of these companies. I mean, yes. It's an unfortunate reality that ethics are often at direct odds with the unrelenting pursuit of business value. For a big tech like Google, by caring about people and the impact of your technologies, you will almost surely sacrifice profits in the short term. So then the question is: pe…

> unrelenting pursuit of business value

Who determines what value a business gets assigned?

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#163

Good for Google. I don't know anything about her, but her debate with Lecun on Twitter was enough for me to know she is toxic. I don't care how good of a researcher she is. The fact they fired her given the current climate shows they actually have balls. I had no idea... I read her email. You know what's crazy about it? she is talking about Google silencing marginalized voices. She keeps referring to herself as a mar…

Can you point me to that Twitter thread?

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#164
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next two tweets contain more: > However, we believe the end of your employment should happen faster than your email reflects because certain aspects of the email you sent last night to non-management employees in the brain group reflect behavior that is inconsistent with the expectations of a Google manager. > As a result, we are accepting your resignation immediately, effective today. We will send your final pay…

No, this is more like giving two weeks' notice and then being asked to leave the building immediately. It's not pleasant but it also isn't the same as being fired. Google called her bluff here.

Without the specific wording of the original email, I don't think that you can draw this conclusion.

I'll note also that this is rather unusual practice for Google. There are a number of people, far more critical of Google, who have resigned, and who have been able to rampdown for 2+ weeks.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#165
post #85
post #9

As per her Tweet Jeff Dean at Google is who decided to fire her https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334352694664957952?s...

sounds like a racist and toxic manager

Dang, can we please adddress this Twitter-style outrage and attacking people without any substance here?

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#166

These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…

I'm especially introspective about this line in the post:

> You are not worth having any conversations about this, since you are not someone whose humanity (let alone expertise recognized by journalists, governments, scientists, civic organizations such as the electronic frontiers foundation etc) is acknowledged or valued in this company.

It feels more generally accurate to say that no ones humanity is respected at companies like Google. That isn't to discount or lessen the difficulties minorities and women have in tech companies; those are substantial and significant. But if someone in a diversity role is slighted, the natural place to jump is a diversity motive; its far more likely that the company just doesn't give a shit about anyone.

And that's true of nearly every company. It was immature for us, as a community, to believe big tech would be any different than any other megacorp. They say they care about diversity, inclusion, and people; they don't. They don't care about any individual. Companies, as a collective intelligence, care about two things: Money and Self-Preservation (in that order).

That being said, I totally support the fight that people like Timnit are fighting; they're fighting for the recognition of humanity, through the lens of diversity and inclusion, a critical component of a much larger fight intrinsic to a capitalistic society. That's the value of a hire like this; its just the unimaginably unfortunate case that this value hasn't been realized at Google, and probably never will.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#167
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to any of these companies. I mean, yes. It's an unfortunate reality that ethics are often at direct odds with the unrelenting pursuit of business value. For a big tech like Google, by caring about people and the impact of your technologies, you will almost surely sacrifice profits in the short term. So then the question is: pe…

> unrelenting pursuit of business value Who determines what value a business gets assigned?

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand the question.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#168

These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…

No one got fired here. Offering to resign was a huge mistake.

> No one got fired here.

I mean, from the tweets what I gather is she wasn't planning on leaving just yet. Saying "hey, you want to resign by [X] but we'd rather you be gone so let us inform you've just been resigned as of now" is essentially firing [1].

> Offering to resign was a huge mistake.

I think this will be good for her in the long term. I'm sure she'll find another research position, and the alternative was betraying her convictions or just the huge burden of constantly being worn down by Google.

[1]: https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364735446331392

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#169

These things seem to play out like clockwork. Progressive companies hire social justice warriors into vague ethics or policy roles, let them hire their activist friends, shower them with fast track careers and promotions. It's good optics, the progressives like it because it makes them feel better about working at big techs. Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to…

>Said hires have thus far, as far as I can tell, not produced anything of substantial value to any of these companies. I mean, yes. It's an unfortunate reality that ethics are often at direct odds with the unrelenting pursuit of business value. For a big tech like Google, by caring about people and the impact of your technologies, you will almost surely sacrifice profits in the short term. So then the question is: pe…

A business doesn’t get to exist because of its employees. It gets to exist because of its customers.
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