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AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

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Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#21
post #10
post #5

Corporations and their managers care only about making money and maintaining good vibes to produce a positive business environment. Only unions engaging in strikes and outside pressure can force them to change materially. All these internal committees and such are just PR. By the way, that part about unions and strikes also applies to the joined at the hip government as well.

Unions have historically been some of the most racist and discriminatory organizations in the USA.

[flagged]

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#22
This seems like such a self-defeating move? You are already paying "Ethics in AI" researchers purely to whitewash your always expanding inscrutable data gathering and mining efforts, what do you care what they write on some internal listserv. It's all just regulatory cover. Pretend you are the leading force on researching this, never implement any of it.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#23
I feel the title is a little misleading.

"withering email" == "anger-fueled message sent by a manager to a large group that asks readers to ignore company policy and start arguments with other leaders"

I don't see where "ethical AI researcher" comes into play here. Instead, I see a leader at a company unprofessionally sending messages to a large listserv and is later fired.

What am I missing?

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#24

Chief AI Scientist at Facebook, Yann Lecun, quit Twitter after a back and forth with this particular AI researcher - https://syncedreview.com/2020/06/30/yann-lecun-quits-twitter... >I’m always amazed at how people can continue to do thing after thing like this and then turn around and ask me for some sort of extra DEI work or input. This happened to me last year. I was in the middle of a potential lawsuit for which K…

Yeah, that Lecun argument was a really bad first impression of her from me. I guess she found out life isn't Twitter and you can't just go around telling everyone they are bad and wrong without consequences.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#25
post #16

This isn't the email that she sent with conditions she wanted met. Apparently she said she would resign if those conditions were not met, and the response to that email is that she was fired.

Purely speculating, but if I were her, those demands would boil down to "If you go f* yourself, I'll quit"

Maybe she's more mature than me, but they're probably not going to end up being super relevant.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#26
I don't think "fired" is the right choice of words -- she gave an ultimatum offering to resign, and they accepted her resignation. Is accepting a resignation the same as firing someone?

> Thanks for making your conditions clear. We cannot agree to #1 and #2 as you are requesting. We respect your decision to leave Google as a result, and we are accepting your resignation.

https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364734418726912

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#27
Title here is misleading (probably deliberate). The email that got this person “fired” was one that allegedly contained an ultimatum and a threat to resign. The employer then called her bluff and accepted her resignation with immediate effect.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#28
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it is supposed to work. If you complain to HR about your manager how can they reveal your identity when your manager controls your performance review and compensation?

Which doesn't seem to be what was happening here though, or at least there's no indication to that effect. At the same time, the narrative that someone above her in the management hierarchy decided to pull her research seems more plausible. In that case, I would tend to "Privacy for the Weak, Transparency for the Powerful." What you describe is the former, but this would seem to be a case of the latter.

It's really hard to tell from this message what really happened. Why isn't it plausible that the paper in question was somehow upsetting to one of the dozens of people to whom the author circulated it? It reads to me like this person rejects the very idea that any criticism of their paper could possibly be legitimate.

Re: AI researcher Timnit Gebru resigns from Google

#30

Chief AI Scientist at Facebook, Yann Lecun, quit Twitter after a back and forth with this particular AI researcher - https://syncedreview.com/2020/06/30/yann-lecun-quits-twitter... >I’m always amazed at how people can continue to do thing after thing like this and then turn around and ask me for some sort of extra DEI work or input. This happened to me last year. I was in the middle of a potential lawsuit for which K…

Well, reading the thread, it's pretty clear that she was correct. There is a second step of metaoptimization which incentives the researchers to encode algorithms to produce algorithms that more easily bias along a certain way. And she is correct that benchmarking models against biased datasets can lead researchers to bias for architectures that are in turn more likely to have a certain bias.

I'm sure LeCun knows this too. It's a fact that has been known for almost 40 years now, that for a given generalization system multiple bias modes are are possible, and of course the process of optimizing architectures against a biased benchmark will change the learning bias of the model. It's not just datasets that are biased, generalization systems are necessarily biased too.

As for the last line, I don't know that it should be expected for employers to fire employees pursuing recourse against sexual harassment.

I'm sure we can agree that the tone wasn't good, but she does have a point in saying that it's not possible to reduce the bias to datasets used to train the final model.

The paper : http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom/pubs/NeedForBias_1980.pdf

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