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Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

npr.org

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Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#61

Post by formercoder »

dalbasal wrote: post #55
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

For those who identify strongly with unions, union-busting stuff like this is triggering... like "bringing up the war" in a war traumatised nation. I get that. But... 2020 isn't 1920 or even 1980. Fresh eyes might see more clearly. To the advantage of union organisers, mass communication and organisation is a lot easier today. Surveillance is easier too. IDK. Yes, Bezos does not want an amazon union and won't just le…

Tough ask for an average warehouse employee to practice enough opsec to hide the talks from Amazon.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#62

Post by fennecfoxen »

FpUser wrote: post #23
llimos wrote: post #10

The levels of corporate greed in the world today are making me give up on humanity.

>"... today ..." Are you implying that they were less greedy at some other time? The whole economy is driven by greed. Always was, always will. You can get some exceptions here and there but the general picture is pure greed.

It would be interesting if someone had a meaningful measure with which to compare corporate greed of today to the greed of feudalism, the greed of colonial empires, and the like.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#63

Post by neaden »

dnissley wrote: post #57
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

Where do we draw the line? What tactics are ok for a company to use to combat unions if it doesn't want them? Or should companies just accept and work with any union that forms?

Don't force your workers to work in dangerous conditions with low pay and no voice in their work place, and maybe they wouldn't want to form a union.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#65

Post by Grimm1 »

badRNG wrote: post #50
Grimm1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine but you had to use alternative sources to get that information. This particular piece is trash because it didn't go get those leaked documents and then discuss them in depth like the vice link. That is real investigative journalism. This linked piece speculated the entire way through. This should be dropped from the front page and we should be discussing the vice or gizmodo article which actually put in the work…

The linked article is an interview with the journalist who leaked the documents discussed in the Vice and Gizmodo articles. I think this story is intended to be a continuation of the discussion on the original story.

Okay that is not particularly clear to me from the article and it's doing a disservice to the overall discussion then, imo. They should at least be linking to the original articles then to give context on that fact.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#66

Post by boomboomsubban »

hpoe wrote: post #54
badRNG wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You are unreasonable for calling out a bad thing, since I can conceive of an even worse thing."

My point is that if we are interested in helping people in geniuly terrible working conditions there are plenty of people who have it far worse than those at Amazon and those should be the focus of these efforts and outrage rather than people making $16 an hour in moderately decent conditions.

How about we let those Amazon workers help themselves and form a union?

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#67

Post by one2know »

Its funny they don't care at all about the Indian labor organization which control > 50% of tech jobs at Amazon and are funded by the Indian government and their lobbying organization NASSCOM. Probably because > 50% of tech managers there are Indian nationals. In fact they promote Indian labor union formation there, which Amazon calls Bof's. They are absolutely entranced, though, in attempts to extract one more penny from blue collar jobs such warehouse, trucking, and security guards which are predominately staffed by white, black, and latino Americans.

Amazon's tech labor costs have to be in the tens of billions per year. They are paying SDE's, SDM's $200k-$1MM and but are surveilling $15 people who are stealing candybars.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#68

Post by downrightmike »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #52
VonGuard wrote: post #34

Ah, lovely of Amazon to employ the EXACT same people that Carnegie and Frick hired to beat and kill steel workers in 1892. How long before Amazon has the Pinkertons open fire on the unionizers? Great prescident, Amazon. No bad choices here. Just the honest, fair dealings of the richest man in the world hiring the same people who've been murdering strikers and unionizers since 1850. Stay classy Jeff!

The exact same people? I marvel at their longevity! 128+ years is quite an accomplishment!

Corporations are people, legally.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#69

Post by badRNG »

hpoe wrote: post #54
badRNG wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You are unreasonable for calling out a bad thing, since I can conceive of an even worse thing."

My point is that if we are interested in helping people in geniuly terrible working conditions there are plenty of people who have it far worse than those at Amazon and those should be the focus of these efforts and outrage rather than people making $16 an hour in moderately decent conditions.

People can care about multiple issues at the same time.

This discussion isn't explicitly about the working conditions of Amazon, it is about the highly unethical methods they use to crush dissent and workers organizing, namely the leaked documents that detail actions including the spying on workers suspected of organizing even outside of work by the Pinkertons.

This isn't the 19th century, this deeply upsetting and unconscionable behavior should not be tolerated in the 21st century.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#70

Post by brmgb »

pmiller2 wrote: post #45
mattalbie wrote: post #12

It’s a very minor point but this article makes it sound like the generic term for a union buster is Pinkerton agent. Pinkerton is a private company who does security work these days, but has a long history of doing exactly this. Fascinating Wikipedia read if you’re curious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)

Indeed, everything old is new again. You know the saying, right? History doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme. This is often attributed to Mark Twain, but there's no real evidence he actually said it.

In this case, I think quoting the introduction to the The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte by Marx is more apt: Hegel says somewhere that great historic facts and personages recur twice. He forgot to add: "Once as tragedy, and again as farce."
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