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Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

npr.org

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Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#41

Post by iratewizard »

patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

>people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions

It really sucks that we decided to bring back indentured servitude. Good thing those unions are there to help the worker and not just some parasitic middleman who sees an opportunity.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#43

Post by piokoch »

Grimm1 wrote: post #11

"Pinkerton operatives were inserted into an Amazon warehouse in Wroclaw, Poland, to investigate an allegation that warehouse workers were circumventing sort of the application process for applying to warehouse jobs" How does this match the title of the piece. Then, "So I imagine that in the U.S., they're tracking labor organizing activity but not union members yet." So they have no proof and this is all speculation.…

Amazon had all kinds of issues in Poland. They were paying so badly at the beginning that many people who applied for the job were former convicts. Some of them took advantage of the opportunity and start steeling stuff from packages (inventing ingenious methods of smuggling them outside in the process). This was a plague at some point.

Eventually thiefs were caught and fired. But then they applied for the job again through agency and came back (Agency was an employer, not Amazon, so, probably Amazon did not have enough data to check who i who).

The fact that Amazon needs to employ top notch investigators is in itself rather hilarious. Those super agents are chasing people who earn about $610 a month (minus taxes).

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#44

Post by jt2190 »

The original piece of reporting that this interview is discussing:

“Secret Amazon Reports Expose the Company’s Surveillance of Labor and Environmental Groups” https://www.vice.com/en/article/5dp3yn/amazon-leaked-reports...

Edit: Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25189167

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#45

Post by pmiller2 »

mattalbie wrote: post #12

It’s a very minor point but this article makes it sound like the generic term for a union buster is Pinkerton agent. Pinkerton is a private company who does security work these days, but has a long history of doing exactly this. Fascinating Wikipedia read if you’re curious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)

Indeed, everything old is new again. You know the saying, right? History doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme. This is often attributed to Mark Twain, but there's no real evidence he actually said it.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#46

Post by selykg »

patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

Speaking with my wallet. I no longer use Amazon.

Though my employer users AWS. I don't have any swing over that sadly.

But for my own money, no more Amazon.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#47

Post by arichard123 »

hpoe wrote: post #28
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

Can I just point out that I think the "horrible working conditions" things is a little played up. You want to know terrible working conditions dancing with a sign for 5 hours a day in the sun when it's 90+. I did that for 3 years and was happy to do the job, mind you this was only 10 years ago so it isn't forever. I made 7.50 an hour. I would've killed to get a job at amazon back then. People are getting payed $16 th…

> People are getting payed $16 that is incredible for an unskilled labor position.

That's one view, but it's only informed by "the way things are". Another view is based on the way things should be, that no one should have to work for less than the wage it takes to live a reasonable life. https://livingwage.mit.edu/ offers values for this.

I don't see why someone should work full time and still end up poor.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#48

Post by Grimm1 »

piokoch wrote: post #43
Grimm1 wrote: post #11

"Pinkerton operatives were inserted into an Amazon warehouse in Wroclaw, Poland, to investigate an allegation that warehouse workers were circumventing sort of the application process for applying to warehouse jobs" How does this match the title of the piece. Then, "So I imagine that in the U.S., they're tracking labor organizing activity but not union members yet." So they have no proof and this is all speculation.…

Amazon had all kinds of issues in Poland. They were paying so badly at the beginning that many people who applied for the job were former convicts. Some of them took advantage of the opportunity and start steeling stuff from packages (inventing ingenious methods of smuggling them outside in the process). This was a plague at some point. Eventually thiefs were caught and fired. But then they applied for the job again…

Sure I don't really care about that though, I care that this piece is a really bad representation of journalism and the fact that it's on the front page instead of better researched and fielded pieces two of which have been linked in a sub comment here from another poster are not.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#49

Post by jmnicolas »

hpoe wrote: post #28
patwolfe wrote: post #18

Really disappointing to see the "Well, what did you expect?" comments already. Just because companies have been trying to prevent organization of their labor for over a century doesn't mean it isn't still messed up now. It's easy to say that it's just the way the world works from your desk, the people who are forced to work in Amazon's warehouses with terrible working conditions don't have that luxury.

Can I just point out that I think the "horrible working conditions" things is a little played up. You want to know terrible working conditions dancing with a sign for 5 hours a day in the sun when it's 90+. I did that for 3 years and was happy to do the job, mind you this was only 10 years ago so it isn't forever. I made 7.50 an hour. I would've killed to get a job at amazon back then. People are getting payed $16 th…

I worked in a factory building car bumpers. The work was so alienating that one day I "woke up" in the factory with literally no recollection of the last 2 hours. From all I knew I could have been taken by ETs but since my bumper quota was good I guess I just zoned out and became a bot.

And I still call Amazon "horrible working conditions".

The fact that it is better than being poor isn't saying much.

Re: Amazon reportedly has Pinkerton agents surveil workers who try to form unions

#50

Post by badRNG »

Grimm1 wrote: post #40
badRNG wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaked documents from Amazon’s Global Security Operations Center reveal the company’s reliance on Pinkerton operatives to spy on warehouse workers and the extensive monitoring of labor unions, environmental activists, and other social movements. [1] This isn't "speculation" or "poor journalism", it is an assessment that exists within the context of a company that has been aggressively anti-union for years, for which…

Fine but you had to use alternative sources to get that information. This particular piece is trash because it didn't go get those leaked documents and then discuss them in depth like the vice link. That is real investigative journalism. This linked piece speculated the entire way through. This should be dropped from the front page and we should be discussing the vice or gizmodo article which actually put in the work…

The linked article is an interview with the journalist who leaked the documents discussed in the Vice and Gizmodo articles. I think this story is intended to be a continuation of the discussion on the original story.
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