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Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

reuters.com

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Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#241

Post by dotancohen »

tlb wrote: post #232
Havoc wrote: post #87

Don’t care. Show me real movement on the corporate mindset. The plane is a STEM engineer fixable issue. The corporate mess that pushed this across flying clearance is not. I’ll aim to fly airbus until Boeing understands that difference and fixes the root cause.

If the corporate mindset were to change, how would you know? What actions would convince you that they were putting safety first again?

Herein lies the problem with Boeing.

Trust takes a long time to build, and minutes to loose. Boeing knows that, that is how a pilot's license is issued and revoked as well. They gambled their Trust and lost, so now they are in a well-deserved decades-long Trust deficit.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#242

Post by dotancohen »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #171
ipnon wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbus aircraft are generally smoother and quieter rides in my experience.

Funny, because I have had the opposite experience.

I don't know why this is downvoted. I happen to love flying on Boeings, especially the 747. I think that Boeings typically have a higher wing loading than Airbusses, which might be noisier but does handle turbulence better.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#243

Post by dotancohen »

ogre_codes wrote: post #2

In a weird way, having the Max grounded during 2020 turned out to be lucky timing on Boeing's part. The airlines slowdown due to COVID likely gave them some serious breathing room while they got their shit together. Now hopefully they actually did get their shit together.

  > The airlines slowdown due to COVID likely gave them some
  > serious breathing room while they got their shit together.
Though I agree with you, Boeing could have really used the time to properly train 737 type pilots on the MCAS-specific issues. But the whole purpose of MCAS was to not retrain pilots, so instead of those pilot spending the past half year training on the new system, they spent the past half year mostly grounded.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#244

Post by napier »

craftinator wrote: post #188
sagarm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.

There was a device invented in France in the late 1700s designed to solve that exact problem.

Ouch. Sharp observation.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#245

Post by de_Selby »

bambax wrote: post #237

> In another display of confidence, European budget airline Ryanair was set to place a hefty order for up to 75 additional 737 MAX jets, industry sources said. If one needed another reason not to fly Ryannair, here it is.

I believe they had an order in place already, but I bet they've negotiated a big discount on it now.

I think people will fly on the MAX (or 737-8 as it's going to be badged) after a year or two assuming there are no more accidents. Cheaper long haul flights is too tempting.

Though I don't think I'd like to be stuck in a Ryanair plane with the temperature notched all the way up so the passengers buy drinks for longer than 1/2hrs.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#246

Post by johannes1234321 »

craftinator wrote: post #188
sagarm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.

There was a device invented in France in the late 1700s designed to solve that exact problem.

That device is a statement to a changing public mindset. Not a solution in itself. In a society where 40% of voters back a corrupt president even after a term where he focussed on enriching himself, I don't see the required readiness.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#247

Post by ThinkBeat »

ogre_codes wrote: post #2

In a weird way, having the Max grounded during 2020 turned out to be lucky timing on Boeing's part. The airlines slowdown due to COVID likely gave them some serious breathing room while they got their shit together. Now hopefully they actually did get their shit together.

Boeing is stuck with a enormous amount of completes airplanes That nobody wants or can afford.

A lot (maybe most) airlines are struggling to survive with the impact of the pandemic on travel.

A lot of banks that have lent money to airlines have their security in part in the airplanes.

Some countries are pumping money into particular airlines to try to keep them from bankruptcy

As more and more airlines news to shed aircraft and employees the market is or will be flooded with used aircraft.

Possibly some can be considered converted for freight if the market stays strong there

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyboga...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/business/b...

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#248

Post by blkknightarms »

fgonzag wrote: post #180
Havoc wrote: post #87

Don’t care. Show me real movement on the corporate mindset. The plane is a STEM engineer fixable issue. The corporate mess that pushed this across flying clearance is not. I’ll aim to fly airbus until Boeing understands that difference and fixes the root cause.

The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.

737 NG Ducommun structural parts debacle was similar and hundreds of those aircraft fly everywhere, everyday until one lands harder than normal, then it breaks up.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#249

Post by varispeed »

sagarm wrote: post #183
fgonzag wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.

That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.

First of all shareholder income should be taxed the same way as employment income. I think (at least in my country) it is absolutely disgusting that when you draw dividends from a business you pay less tax than if you were drawing a salary. If taxation was the same across the board, then there will be no incentive for shareholders to insist on extracting the value through dividends. The next thing is that in many cases shareholders are de-facto directors in terms of influence, this means they should also share the same liabilities and responsibilities. This should be a start to make it healthier.

Re: Boeing's upgraded 737 Max completes first flight with media onboard

#250

Post by sn41 »

sagarm wrote: post #183
fgonzag wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that angered me the most was Boeing refusing to admit responsibility and fighting the authorities that were grounding the plane. They knew people were dying and were willing to let more people die without remorse. In my mind that was a criminal action.

That kind of sociopathic behavior is natural outcome of business culture that is solely about maximizing shareholder value. I'm not sure what can be done to fix it.

A lot can be done to fix things. Prompt prosecution against management, including manslaughter charges where applicable. This no longer "wink, wink, nudge nudge" stretching the rules that is prevalent. Hundreds have already lost their lives.
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